# Time to officially Pit the Sanford Police Dept and their cover-up. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 29, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108 "2012-03-29T01:38:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/141 "2012-04-01T16:27:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Whoa, hold it! What? When was it “admitted”? Not that I’m shocked that it was, only that they admitted it. Advise. [“The Daily Caller enhanced the lower image to show additional detail”](http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/) It may only be “enhanced”. With a more reputable publication, I wouldn’t think much of it at all. With The Daily fucking Caller, all bets are off. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/142 "2012-04-01T16:32:33Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > None. But the one on the Daily Caller was \*admittedly \*altered. To make it appear that Zimmerman was injured? I am pretty skeptical. For some other reason? Then so what? > [@](#): > > doesn’t need my help to be convinced of the bias of the websites you’ve linked to. Lol, whatever. Subconsciously, you are probably starting to realize that if Zimmerman was indeed injured consistent with his story, then you will have to slink back in to your hole. > [@](#): > > Me, I got bored with that game quite some time ago. Yes, it’s surely boring to actually explain and defend your position. However, I have no interest in engaging with such. Bye. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/143 "2012-04-01T16:34:38Z")
To be ruthlessly fair, they show the unenhanced image as well. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/144 "2012-04-01T16:49:54Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Bye. Promises, promises. > [@elucidator](#): > > To be ruthlessly fair, they show the unenhanced image as well. Yes, they do, which I frankly only believe is untouched because I’ve seen it elsewhere. Again, it’s the Daily Caller. You remember that movie where no one could lie? Did they mention the existence of the Daily Caller in that movie? Not a coincidence. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/145 "2012-04-01T17:14:39Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Lol, whatever. Subconsciously, you are probably starting to realize that if Zimmerman was indeed injured consistent with his story, then you will have to slink back in to your hole. You can say someone subconsciously thinks anything you want, and there’s no defense. If you say that you aren’t thinking that, then you can say it’s just subconscious. It poisons the well, and should be above someone with rules of debate. Furthermore, you just called her a name, implying she was some sort of snake or varmint. That’s not the type the type of argument you say you want, i.e. one without namecalling and insults. Still, like all poisoned wells, there is an antidote, and I will offer it, since she can’t. While it would be a nice smoking gun if the video proved Zimmerman injuries were inconsistent with the police report, it’s not like the pro-Martin case crumbles if they were actually consistent. We didn’t even know about this video until quite recently. It makes no sense for anyone to “slink back into [their] hole” when they were already making the case without the video evidence. An injured Zimmerman would still be guilty if he started the fight, even with the SYG law. Remember, an assaulted Martin would have no duty to retreat, either. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/146 "2012-04-01T17:17:28Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Watch out, the fact that you have nothing intelligent to say is showing. What exact point do you think he’s making? Maybe I’m mistaken, but I don’t think he’s actually calling you a racist. In fact, I’m pretty sure he’s saying the same thing you did in another thread, that people cry racism for no reason. Although I guess he could be making fun of you for that reasoning, since, on this board at least, it’s pretty much a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/147 "2012-04-01T17:27:36Z")
Where were they? I’ve seen references to Martin slamming Z.'s head into the sidewalk, and then I read that Martin’s body was found at some distance from the sidewalk, in the grass. Certainly if Z’s head was slammed into the sidewalk, a gash on the back of the head makes perfect sense, except for the lack of blood on his person or the sidewalk. If there were a blood stain on the sidewalk, I imagine we would have heard about it. In the context of “heard about it” being “trumpeted to the skies”. If we are talking about the grass, it becomes a bit more difficult, we have to assume some hard object in the grass. Which isn’t out of the question, of course. A stone, fossilized dog poo, something like that. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/148 "2012-04-01T17:49:53Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You can say someone subconsciously thinks anything you want, and there’s no defense. If you say that you aren’t thinking that, then you can say it’s just subconscious. It poisons the well, and should be above someone with rules of debate. You are free to have your own rules. I sometimes speculate about peoples’ motivations. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, you just called her a name, implying she was some sort of snake or varmint. That’s not the type the type of argument you say you want, i.e. one without namecalling and insults. Again, you are free to have your own rules. Here’s what mine say: > [@](#): > > However, if you insult me in a forum where flames are permitted, I may ignore it. Or throw something back at you. > [@](#): > > Still, like all poisoned wells, there is an antidote, and I will offer it, since she can’t. While it would be a nice smoking gun if the video proved Zimmerman injuries were inconsistent with the police report, it’s not like the pro-Martin case crumbles if they were actually consistent. I would say it pretty much crumbles. To be sure, one can concoct scenarios in which Zimmerman throws the first punch and therefore is not entitled to plead self-defense. But looking at the situation reasonably, it’s pretty likely at that point that his story is essentially true. > [@](#): > > We didn’t even know about this video until quite recently. It makes no sense for anyone to “slink back into [their] hole” when they were already making the case without the video evidence. I’m not sure what your point is here. > [@](#): > > An injured Zimmerman would still be guilty if he started the fight, even with the SYG law. Remember, an assaulted Martin would have no duty to retreat, either. I agree. But to reasonably conclude that Zimmerman is guilty, one has to believe that he is lying about what happened. It’s reasonable to be skeptical about his story if there is no significant corroborating evidence. But if there is significant corroborating evidence, the reasonable conclusion is that he is probably telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/149 "2012-04-01T18:25:12Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Also, I don’t know how many of you have taken a hard hit to the back of the head, but in my experience it doesn’t leave one quite so sprightly. Stop with the junior CSI act, **D**! My grandfathers next door neighbor’s cousin once was thwacked in the head by a metal baseball bat ten times in the rain, but was able to walk perfectly straight afterwards. And they didn’t have to go to the hospital until a day later either. Just like the Zimster. 'Course, in this person’s case they didn’t scream for help like a helpless kid like Zimmerman supposedly did. One would think that someone who can take such a beating and be so perky and pristine in the aftermath would be similarly composed during the main event. But look at me, using that amaterish CSI logic again! Bad me. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/150 "2012-04-01T19:10:05Z")
> [@](#): > > You don’t have to wait to be injured How about if some guy follows one about and pulls a gun on one? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/151 "2012-04-01T20:01:00Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I agree. But to reasonably conclude that Zimmerman is guilty, one has to believe that he is lying about what happened. It’s reasonable to be skeptical about his story if there is no significant corroborating evidence. But if there is significant corroborating evidence, the reasonable conclusion is that he is probably telling the truth. Or that he concocted his story to match the evidence. If Zimmerman was injured, it supports his claim that a fight took place. It doesn’t do a thing to prove who started it. For that matter, Zimmerman could have deliberately injured himself after the shooting, in order to make his claim of self-defense more credible. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/152 "2012-04-01T20:03:22Z")
Oh, so that’s what they mean by “self-abuse”! Wish someone had told me sooner. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/153 "2012-04-01T20:37:50Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Or that he concocted his story to match the evidence. If Zimmerman was injured, it supports his claim that a fight took place. It doesn’t do a thing to prove who started it. > > For that matter, Zimmerman could have deliberately injured himself after the shooting, in order to make his claim of self-defense more credible. No matter what evidence comes out, there will be lots of possible explanations which are consistent with Zimmerman being guilty. And many of the people who are emotionally or financially invested in Zimmerman being guilty will no doubt cling to those explanations. However, if it turns out that Zimmerman really does have a broken nose and lacerations on the back of his head, the simple, reasonable explanation which will be accepted by reasonable people will be that things went down pretty much as Zimmerman described. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/154 "2012-04-01T21:14:21Z")
We \*already \*know otherwise, from the police’s own video. Your position is inconsistent with fact. But we already know that, too. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/155 "2012-04-01T21:24:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > We \*already \*know otherwise, from the police’s own video. I disagree. From the video, it appears that something is wrong with Zimmerman’s nose. Also, there appears to be some sort of discoloration on the back of his head. I will wait to see the actual photos (if they exist) before making up my mind. > [@](#): > > Your position is inconsistent with fact. Exactly what position are you talking about? That it’s possible Zimmerman has injuries consistent with his story? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/156 "2012-04-01T21:30:20Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > No matter what evidence comes out, there will be lots of possible explanations which are consistent with Zimmerman being guilty. And many of the people who are emotionally or financially invested in Zimmerman being guilty will no doubt cling to those explanations. > > However, if it turns out that Zimmerman really does have a broken nose and lacerations on the back of his head, the simple, reasonable explanation which will be accepted by reasonable people will be that things went down pretty much as Zimmerman described. I disagree. If Zimmerman attempted to detain Martin, or harassed him in some way, it would not be consistent with his story at all, and would still be consistent with his injuries. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/157 "2012-04-01T21:31:56Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I disagree. From the video, it appears that something is wrong with Zimmerman’s nose. Also, there appears to be some sort of discoloration on the back of his head. Only to people inclined to believe Zimmerman’s account. There is nothing abnormal looking about that man’s head, at least physically. Mentally is another story. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/158 "2012-04-01T21:33:58Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Exactly what position are you talking about? That it’s possible Zimmerman has injuries consistent with his story? Yes. Was that unclear? You’re seeing what you want to see, not what’s there. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/159 "2012-04-01T21:41:23Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > I disagree. If Zimmerman attempted to detain Martin, or harassed him in some way, it would not be consistent with his story at all, and would still be consistent with his injuries. 😕 I agree that “\*f Zimmerman attempted to detain Martin, or harassed him in some way, it would not be consistent with his story at all, and would still be consistent with his injuries.” I’m not sure what you mean by “harass,” since by Zimmerman’s own admission, he watched Martin; called the authorities about him; and then attempted to follow him. The legal question in your scenario will be whether Zimmerman engaged in any behavior which forfeited his right of self-defense. Is there any evidence at all that this happened? The main arguments I have heard from “Team Trayvon” are that (1) based on the size disparity, it’s not possible that Martin could have sucker punched Zimmerman, brought him down, and started beating him; and (2) Zimmerman is uninjured and therefore his story is a lie. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108/160 "2012-04-01T21:44:55Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Only to people inclined to believe Zimmerman’s account. There is nothing abnormal looking about that man’s head, at least physically. I disagree, but I am happy to wait for better pictures to come up the pike. > [@](#): > > Yes. Was that unclear? Yes, a bit. > [@](#): > > You’re seeing what you want to see, not what’s there. I suspect it’s more a case of you not seeing what you don’t want to see. But I am happy to wait for better pictures to come along. If it turns out that Zimmerman does not have the injuries one would expect from his story, then he’s a fucking liar and deserves to go to jail. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-officially-pit-the-sanford-police-dept-and-their-cover-up/617108.md?page=9)