# Time to pit the Taliban again - killing vaccination program workers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 18, 2012, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413 "2012-12-18T10:44:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/1 "2012-12-18T10:44:11Z")
[Karachi polio killings: Vaccination workers shot](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20767138) Maybe it is too easy, but The Taliban show once again their pit-worthiness. These f—ed up excuses for human beings decided that trying to wipe the scourge of polio off the map once and for all is just not something they can stand. Yup. They want to stop vaccination programs because those NGOs must be spying on them!?!?! :smack: Assholes! If only there was a way to only infect the morons responsible for these killings. I’d say give them polio and let them see what it is all about. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/2 "2012-12-18T12:16:51Z")
Absolutely fucked up, but some of the blame falls squarely on the CIA: [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/health/cia-vaccine-ruse-in-pakistan-may-have-harmed-polio-fight.html?pagewanted=all&\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/health/cia-vaccine-ruse-in-pakistan-may-have-harmed-polio-fight.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) > [@](#): > > In Pakistan, where polio has never been eliminated, the C.I.A.’s decision to send a vaccination team into the Bin Laden compound to gather information and DNA samples clearly hurt the national polio drive. The question is: How badly? > > After the ruse by Dr. Shakil Afridi was revealed by a British newspaper a year ago, angry villagers, especially in the lawless tribal areas on the Afghan border, chased off legitimate vaccinators, accusing them of being spies. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Stilettos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/fbc32d/32.png) [@Red\_Stilettos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Stilettos)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/3 "2012-12-18T12:28:34Z")
I work in public health, and we were expecting this as soon as the details of the Bin Laden raid were known. Vaccination programs, especially when the disease is very rare like polio, require a lot of public trust in the field workers. Engaging the workers in a CIA mission destroyed that trust. Even if the program continued, we expected the vaccination rate to fall due to refusals. Whether the CIA knew they were jeopardizing public health is up for debate, but they had to have known that they were risking the lives of those field workers. This loss of trust will extend to other public health operations as well. It’s an obstacle we really couldn’t afford and we will be working to overcome it for decades. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/4 "2012-12-18T13:38:38Z")
Eh I cannot get angry at the Taliban. A dog barks at you because he is a dog, the Taliban do such things because the are the Taliban. What I will pit is the provincial and city authorities who let such teams into towns with overwhelming majoities of Afghan, Arab and C Asian without even the smallest security detail. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/5 "2012-12-19T03:04:48Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Absolutely fucked up, but some of the blame falls squarely on the CIA: > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/health/cia-vaccine-ruse-in-pakistan-may-have-harmed-polio-fight.html?pagewanted=all&\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/health/cia-vaccine-ruse-in-pakistan-may-have-harmed-polio-fight.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) > [@Red\_Stilettos](#): > > I work in public health, and we were expecting this as soon as the details of the Bin Laden raid were known. Vaccination programs, especially when the disease is very rare like polio, require a lot of public trust in the field workers. Engaging the workers in a CIA mission destroyed that trust. Even if the program continued, we expected the vaccination rate to fall due to refusals. Whether the CIA knew they were jeopardizing public health is up for debate, but they had to have known that they were risking the lives of those field workers. > > This loss of trust will extend to other public health operations as well. It’s an obstacle we really couldn’t afford and we will be working to overcome it for decades. Come on. The blame falls squarely on the people who spread misinformation about the polio vaccine (that it is a secret plot to sterilise muslims), and the killers of people who attempt vaccination. The conspiracy theory about polio has been particularly insidious and existed long before the CIA used Shakil Afridi to find Bin Laden. It was the only reason why polio was interrupted in India last year, instead of years ago. Most of India has been polio free for years. The only holdouts? Two muslim majority areas in two states where muslim families refused to allow vaccination. All the Shakil Afridi case did is provide fodder for lunatics, but lunatics will manufacture fodder if you don’t give them any. > [@AK84](#): > > Eh I cannot get angry at the Taliban. A dog barks at you because he is a dog, the Taliban do such things because the are the Taliban. What I will pit is the provincial and city authorities who let such teams into towns with overwhelming majoities of Afghan, Arab and C Asian without even the smallest security detail. No pitting of the authorities that bred these dogs to turn loose at India? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/6 "2012-12-19T03:10:38Z")
Evil Taliban is evil. Story at 11. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/7 "2012-12-19T14:24:59Z")
I’m sure this happened out of a concern that the children might become autistic. The Taliban follow Jenny McCarthy very closely. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/8 "2012-12-19T15:00:44Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I’m sure this happened out of a concern that the children might become autistic. The Taliban follow Jenny McCarthy very closely. I don’t think they are _that_ evil. :eek: Over here Muslim insurgents in the South have recently taken upon themselves to murder school teachers. Heavens forbid kids may get an education, before you know it they may start thinking for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/9 "2012-12-19T16:41:05Z")
My thinking is that we ought to let those fuckers be crippled and diseased if they want to go killing vaccination teams. You want a 15th century society, you get one. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/10 "2012-12-19T16:46:50Z")
What do you expect from an organization that tries to kill a 14 year old girl for her views on women and education? It’s a mighty strange god they worship. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/11 "2012-12-19T17:56:51Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Absolutely fucked up, but some of the blame falls squarely on the CIA: > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/health/cia-vaccine-ruse-in-pakistan-may-have-harmed-polio-fight.html?pagewanted=all&\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/health/cia-vaccine-ruse-in-pakistan-may-have-harmed-polio-fight.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) I tend to agree that blame lies with the fucked-up fuckers who killed the health workers, but one must consider the wisdom of using a health service as a front for CIA activity. There’s a reason you don’t do that sort of stuff as it delegitimizes the real thing. In this case, however, I think the Taliban have shown themselves to be able to make up any excuse for doing anything in the name of “fighting the infidels”. At least our school shooters usually kill themselves, too. ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/12 "2012-12-19T19:26:32Z")
Reminds me of… [QUOTE=Col. Kurtz from Apocalypse Now] It’s impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror… Horror has a face… and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies! I remember when I was with Special Forces… seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate some children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn’t see. We went back there, and they had come and hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember… I… I… I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out; I didn’t know what I wanted to do! And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it… I never want to forget. And then I realized… like I was shot… like I was shot with a diamond… a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God… the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we, because they could stand that these were not monsters, these were men… trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love… but they had the strength… the strength… to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men, our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral… and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling… without passion… without judgment… without judgment! Because it’s judgment that defeats us. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/13 "2012-12-19T19:55:09Z")
> [@bump](#): > > My thinking is that we ought to let those fuckers be crippled and diseased if they want to go killing vaccination teams. > > You want a 15th century society, you get one. Is Afghanistan isolated enough that outbreaks of communicable diseases there won’t affect all of us? If so, knock yourselves out, Taliban! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/14 "2012-12-19T22:06:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > In this case, however, I think the Taliban have shown themselves to be able to make up any excuse for doing anything in the name of “fighting the infidels”. “Join the Taliban, where there’s always a good excuse to kill people!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/15 "2012-12-19T23:10:20Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Is Afghanistan isolated enough that outbreaks of communicable diseases there won’t affect all of us? If so, knock yourselves out, Taliban! Plenty of entirely innocent children would be the chief victims of polio etc. Not their fault the Taliban are medieval fuckheads. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/16 "2012-12-19T23:24:35Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > “Join the Taliban, where there’s always a good excuse to kill people!!!” Be all the asshole you can be! Let’s not forge that the Taliban was the creation of our good friends, the Pakistanis. Ms Bhutto, in particular. God, I can’t wait until we get the ever-loving fuck out of that place. I’m sure many Afghanis are wonderful people, but too many of them don’t want us there. Can’t really blame them, to a certain extent. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/17 "2012-12-19T23:32:08Z")
Didn’t it also grow in part out of the CIA-funded mujahadeen rebels fighting the Soviets? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/18 "2012-12-20T06:13:20Z")
> [@bump](#): > > My thinking is that we ought to let those fuckers be crippled and diseased if they want to go killing vaccination teams. > > You want a 15th century society, you get one. There are two massive problems with that. One is that India has just (idiotically, in my view) signed off on a more liberal visa regime with Pakistan, so there are going to be more people visiting from Pakistan. We’ve only just interrupted polio transmission last year (thanks fundie islam), and I really, really don’t want it to be imported again. The second is that Afghanistan collapsed to a 15th century society in the and we let it. See where that got us? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/19 "2012-12-20T06:56:55Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Didn’t it also grow in part out of the CIA-funded mujahadeen rebels fighting the Soviets? Even if they did, it likely sprang from Pakistani experience in working with militants/terrorists, and was routed through them in any case. From an article [Understanding militancy in Pakistan](http://www.princeton.edu/~jns/publications/Understanding%20Support%20for%20Islamist%20Militancy.pdf) by Shapiro and Fair. > [@](#): > > Pakistan precipitated the first Indo-Pakistani War (1947–48) a few weeks after independence by launching tribal lashkar (militia) from Waziristan in an effort to wrest Kashmir from India. Pakistan has supported various insurgent cells in Kashmir from 1947 to the present. With the security provided by its covert nuclearization, Pakistan expanded its “jihad” to the rest of India in the late > 1980s. After overt nuclearizaton in 1998, Pakistan became even more aggressive about supporting asymmetric actions within India. See, for example, Ashley J. Tellis, C. Christine Fair, and Jamison Jo Medby, “Limited Conºicts under the Nuclear Umbrella—Indian and Pakistani Lessons from the Kargil Crisis” (Santa Monica, Calif.: RAND, 2001); Praveen Swami, India, Pakistan, and the Secret Jihad: The Covert War in Kashmir, 1947–2004 (New York: Routledge, 2007); and S. Paul Kapur, Dangerous Deterrent: Nuclear Weapons Proliferation and Conºict in South Asia (Stanford, Calif.: Stanford University Press, 2007). From the [New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/16/110516fa_fact_wright) > [@](#): > > That April, the military dictator of Pakistan, General Mohammed Zia-ul-Haq, hanged the civilian President he had expelled from office, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto; he then cancelled elections. U.S. aid came to a halt. At the same time, Zia began giving support to an Islamist organization, Jamaat-e-Islami, the forerunner of many more radical groups to come. In November, a mob of Jamaat followers, inflamed by a rumor that the U.S. and Israel were behind an attack on the Grand Mosque, in Mecca, burned the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad to the ground, > > \ > > The very next month, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. > > \ > > Under Carter’s successor, Ronald Reagan, U.S. aid nearly quintupled: about three billion dollars in economic assistance and two billion in military aid. The Reagan Administration also provided three billion dollars to Afghan jihadis. These funds went through the sticky hands of the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, the spy branch of the Pakistani Army. Starting in 1987, the I.S.I. was headed by General Hamid Gul, a cunning and bitterly anti-American figure. > > \ > Later, Gul helped oversee the creation of the Taliban, reportedly using mainly Saudi money. The I.S.I. openly supported the Taliban until September 11, 2001. Since then, the Pakistani government has disavowed the group, but it is widely believed that it still provides Taliban leaders with safe harbor in Quetta, where they stage jihad against Western forces in Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![truthSeeker2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7cd45c/32.png) [@truthSeeker2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/truthSeeker2)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413/20 "2012-12-20T10:04:53Z")
Pakistan can also take the credit for the creation of the likes of Lashkar-e-toiba apart from the Taliban. The only Islamic Nuclear Power, the savior of Muslims around the world, _Dil Dil Pakistan Jive Jive Pakistan_…😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-pit-the-taliban-again-killing-vaccination-program-workers/644413.md?page=2)