# Time to tell the music industry to **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 31, 2007, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755 "2007-12-31T01:51:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/41 "2007-12-31T14:36:30Z")
[QUOTE=BoBettie] Um, yes? You can’t copy and SHARE music. That (IMHO) makes sense. If your SO wants a mix CD, he or she should legally purchase the music. The music belongs to you, not your SO. What the thread is about is people ripping their OWN legally purchased music and getting in trouble for using it themselves, not for sharing it. Ripping music then sharing it is an entirely different issue. What I would love to know is how he got “caught”. I don’t know anyone that does \*\*not \*\* rip their CDs to a digital format to enjoy on their MP3 player. [/QUOTE] What if the CD in question was ripped to a shared computer? Should each user be required to pay for it again? I’m all in favor of artists being paid for their work. I just think that the RIAA needs to get over their model of physical recordings and figure out a way to make the system profitable and easy for everyone. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/42 "2007-12-31T14:43:52Z")
The best possible way to completely destroy the CD industry is to make it illegal to copy them through computers to iPods and mp3 players. People will simply stop buying them altogether. These music people remind me of the Kamikaze Scotsmen from the old _Monty Python_ series. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/43 "2007-12-31T14:46:28Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] That’s part of what pisses me off so much in discussions like this; I have heard (I’ll have to research it later, since I’m off to work now) that the music industry has NOT had declining sales since the introduction of mp3s, iPods, iTunes, etc. It’s a control and “We’ve always done it this way, so we’ll always do it this way” issue ONLY. [/QUOTE] I don’t have any specific articles to cite, but I regularly read Billboard for my job and nearly every issue features one article concerning declining _compact disc_ sales following by multiple articles detailing rising sales of downloadable music, ringtones, video game soundtrack licensing, etc, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/44 "2007-12-31T14:51:52Z")
[QUOTE=Justin\_Bailey] I don’t have any specific articles to cite, but I regularly read Billboard for my job and nearly every issue features one article concerning declining _compact disc_ sales following by multiple articles detailing rising sales of downloadable music, ringtones, video game soundtrack licensing, etc, etc. [/QUOTE] I don’t follow it as closely as you do, but my understanding is the same - that “physical music” sales have been falling for years. I don’t know if labels make as much profit on downloads as they do on CDs. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/45 "2007-12-31T14:54:19Z")
This story requires more detailed investigation: > [@R.I.A.A.'s Web site](#): > > 1. How is downloading music different from copying a personal CD? > > **Record companies have never objected to someone making a copy of a CD for their own personal use. We want fans to enjoy the music they bought legally.** But both copying CDs to give to friends and downloading music illegally rob the people who created that music of compensation for their work. When record companies are deprived of critical revenue, they are forced to lay off employees, drop artists from their rosters, and sign fewer bands. That’s bad news for the music industry, but ultimately bad news for fans as well. We all benefit from a vibrant music industry committed to nurturing the next generation of talent. > > For more on what the law says about copying CDs, click HERE > [@R.I.A.A.'s link to MusicUnited.org](#): > > Examples of easy ways you could violate the law: > > ``` > * Somebody you don’t even know e-mails you a copy of a copyrighted song and then you turn around and e-mail copies to all of your friends. > * **You make an MP3 copy of a song because the CD you bought expressly permits you to do so.** But then you put your MP3 copy on the Internet, using a file-sharing network, so that millions of other people can download it. > > ``` * * * [QUOTE=mangeorge] fuck off? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Gatopescado] Fuck them, Fuck everyone and especially fuck Lars Ulrich. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Now I’m convinced it really stands for “retarded.” [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] Well, fuck 'em; I almost never buy CDs anymore anyhow. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] I almost feel pity. On the other hand, fuck 'em. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=featherlou] I am also 100% against giving another penny to the recording industry. Buh-bye, guys - [/QUOTE] If “fuck 'em” is how you feel, then more power to you. You have an absolute right as a consumer not to purchase products that you don’t want. However, if “fuck 'em” means “I’m going to go ahead and acquire their products for free,” then the R.I.A.A. is absolutely justified in labeling you a thief and you should expect to get nailed like the woman in Minnesota. [QUOTE=Barbarian] That’s about as sensible as proposing flash drives and MP3 players be subject to a special levy _just in case_ the owner is illegally copying songs. Which is what the industry is proposing in Canada… [/quote] I believe that all blank audio and videocassette tapes sold in Canada already come with such a surcharge that is distributed to copyright holders because it is expected that blank tapes will be used to make unauthorized copies of copyrighted works. Why not extend that policy to flash drives and MP3 players? > [@Barbarian](#): > > And these are the same fucktards who pay money to have their ‘artists’ broadcast for free on radio… What’s your point exactly? [QUOTE=ivylass] So, let me ask you this. If someone puts together a mix CD for their significant other as a birthday or anniversary present, is that stealing? [/QUOTE] It’s illegal. It always has been. You can make a copy for your personal use, but as soon as you give it to someone else, that’s copyright infringement. Historically, record companies have not bothered to go after this kind of thing, because it was so small scale, but with digital technology, “mix tapes” made by “professional DJs” have become a major profit industry and the hammer has come down on some of them. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/46 "2007-12-31T14:59:25Z")
[Possibly relevant comic](http://xkcd.com/294/) ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/47 "2007-12-31T15:03:14Z")
It’s not a new issue: > [@](#): > > Ripping music to your hard drive is still in dispute. The Recording Industry Association of America has told the U.S. Supreme Court it was “perfectly legal” to copy music from a CD to your hard drive, and still says so on its website. But the RIAA elsewhere claims it isn’t legal at all. As MUSIC points out, if you copy music to your computer for non-commercial, personal use, it probably doesn’t matter, but some cases suggest that a computer hard drive isn’t covered by the AHRA. [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcopyright2.htm](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mcopyright2.htm) and see this thread where we talked about the issue and the RIAA’s conflicting positions on the issue: [Can I legally copy my music then sell the originals? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=374686) ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/48 "2007-12-31T15:05:04Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] This story requires more detailed investigation: [/quote] And this thread requires more detailed reading… by you. See posts #33 and #35 where your point was already addressed. Obviously the RIAA is either inconsistent about this issue or they recently changed their stance, because their web site contradicts things that they’re saying in open court. > [@acsenray](#): > > I believe that all blank audio and videocassette tapes sold in Canada already come with such a surcharge that is distributed to copyright holders because it is expected that blank tapes will be used to make unauthorized copies of copyrighted works. Why not extend that policy to flash drives and MP3 players? Because charging people for something illegal that you _think_ they _might_ do with something is an insanely moronic idea to begin with? And because adding that surcharge and having it still be illegal to make unauthorized copies is taking a terrible idea and making it ten times worse? ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/49 "2007-12-31T15:36:22Z")
[QUOTE=featherlou] Let me state unequivocally that I am absolutely, 100% pro paying artists for their music, talent, and efforts. I am also 100% against giving another penny to the recording industry. Buh-bye, guys - you’re the next typewriter manufacturers. Give it up already and go find real jobs instead of trying to hamstring my Mac. [/QUOTE] Then steal the music by downloading it online, then mail the money directly to the artist, because truthfully speaking, that’s really the only way the artist will see any of it. You don’t even want to know what the cut is for album sales to the artist. I am shocked that musicians haven’t come together and formed their own recording industry where they can put out there own music and get paid for it thereby cutting out the recording industry entirely. It isn’t just about the money. with all of the post processing, brick wall limiting and compression that happens to the music in the industry, the music is destroyed before it ever gets burned to CD. Many artists are getting tired of this. Take any current album that you have in your library. I guarantee you that it is a crispy digital husk of what the music was originally created to be. The amount of compression that goes on behind the scenes has squeezed almost every bit of life out of the music. This is done so that the music is as loud or louder than all other music out there. Then when the radio stations get it, they compress it some more so that all of the music is the same volume on the airways. The result is lifeless music, and I’m not simply referring to the lack of talent out there. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/50 "2007-12-31T15:54:15Z")
[QUOTE=BoBettie] Um, yes? You can’t copy and SHARE music. That (IMHO) makes sense. If your SO wants a mix CD, he or she should legally purchase the music. The music belongs to you, not your SO. What the thread is about is people ripping their OWN legally purchased music and getting in trouble for using it themselves, not for sharing it. Ripping music then sharing it is an entirely different issue. [/QUOTE] So, how close an SO does the person have to be before this becomes a non issue, or is it always an issue? Can my wife rip a song onto a compilation CD for her own listening pleasure if I owned the CD prior to our marriage, or only if I bought it after? How about if she bought it after we were married, but I’m the only person who works, so it’s “my” money that she’s using? How about if it’s been previously ripped to her hard drive, but someone got drunk at our Xmas party and put the original CD in the microwave and wrecked it, can we still listen to the song? Suppose she grabs a CD that I had made from albums that I purchased and listens to it? Doesn’t this all seem pretty stupid to you? Wouldn’t adapting to new technologies benefit both the artist AND the record company, while also allowing the end user the freedom to utilize new technology? Of course it would, but doing so would mean giving up total control of the product, and the RIAA just can’t conceive of that, so they are vigorously alienating every person on the planet as they desperately flail about attempting to forestall their inevitable extinction. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/51 "2007-12-31T15:54:53Z")
A lot of snipping leaves: [QUOTE=acsenray] I believe that all blank audio and videocassette tapes sold in Canada already come with such a surcharge that is distributed to copyright holders because it is expected that blank tapes will be used to make unauthorized copies of copyrighted works. Why not extend that policy to flash drives and MP3 players? [/QUOTE] If this is true, then anyone who buys a tape has been licensed to copy whatever they please, as many times as they please. Whatever will fit on the tape. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/52 "2007-12-31T16:00:33Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] If this is true, then anyone who buys a tape has been licensed to copy whatever they please, as many times as they please. Whatever will fit on the tape. [/QUOTE] Remembering that this applies only to Canada: Not necessarily. I don’t know much about Canadian law, but my guess is that this is not a safe assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/53 "2007-12-31T16:06:31Z")
The RIAA seems determined to put the worst possible face on itself. I don’t think many people disagree with the principle of paying artists for the works they create. But the RIAA insists that in order to pay the artist a dollar for his or her work, you have to pay the RIAA ten dollars as well. The general public has the perception that the RIAA is doing nothing to earn the money they want. They don’t actually create the art that they insist on being paid for. They’re just using their financial clout to put up legal barriers that forces art to be distributed in a manner that benefits them. It’s a self-defeating policy. Eventually they will alienate enough members of the general public that public pressure will lead to legal changes. Laws will be passed that are much more unfavorable to the RIAA then the ones they could have gotten by reasonable accomodation. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/54 "2007-12-31T16:16:13Z")
[QUOTE=neutron star] Because charging people for something illegal that you _think_ they _might_ do with something is an insanely moronic idea to begin with? And because adding that surcharge and having it still be illegal to make unauthorized copies is taking a terrible idea and making it ten times worse? [/QUOTE] ::cough:: Guns! ::cough:: I don’t agree with copyright laws. Downloading music isn’t stealing; listening to your buddy’s CDs isn’t stealing; watching videos on youtube isn’t stealing; reading books in the library isn’t stealing; in general, enjoying the fruits of someone else’s creativity without paying them is not stealing. Period. I’m surprised its taking this long for our economy to reveal the error we made in originally thinking so. Of course, the RIAA and MPAA are taking my disapproval of “information property” to another whole level. Now it is becoming outright hatred. Pit away. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/55 "2007-12-31T16:22:28Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] > [@mangeorge](#): > > If this is true, then anyone who buys a tape has been licensed to copy whatever they please, as many times as they please. Whatever will fit on the tape. Remembering that this applies only to Canada: Not necessarily. I don’t know much about Canadian law, but my guess is that this is not a safe assumption. [/QUOTE] For a short time in 2004-05, it was explicitly legal to download and upload music in Canada, but this court ruling was overturned on appeal. However, you are allowed to make copies for personal use only. From Wikipedia ([File sharing in Canada - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_sharing_in_Canada)): > [@](#): > > Furthermore, the Act allows that the copying of sound recordings of musical works for the personal use of the person who makes the copy, is not copyright infringement. This is supported by a levy on blank recording media, which is distributed to record labels and musicians. > [@](#): > > For a brief period in 2004/2005, the sharing of copyrighted music files via peer-to-peer online systems was explicitly legal, due to a decision by the Federal Court, in BMG Canada Inc. v. John Doe. [5].[6] Under certain conditions both downloading and uploading were held to be legal. > [@](#): > > However, the case was appealed, and on May 19, 2005, this section of the decision was set aside by the Federal Court of Appeal. [8] The appeals court dismissed the case, primarily due to lack of evidence linking the unnamed defendants to the alleged copyright infringement. However, it held that it was inappropriate for the original trial court judge to have ruled on the question of whether making music files available on peer-to-peer file sharing systems constitutes “distribution” (illegal under the Copyright Act) or simply facilitates “private copying” (legal under the Act) at that point in the proceedings. The appeals court specifically left open the possibility of future lawsuits, wherein the question of the legality of peer-to-peer sharing could be addressed. So far, no further such lawsuits have been filed in Canada, leaving it an open question. > [@](#): > > A new copyright bill was expected to be introduced by the current Conservative Party government before the end of 2007. It was expected to have much stronger protections for copyright owners, including some provisions similar to the American DMCA. [9] However, due to massive public outcry in the days leading up to the bill’s expected introduction, the government decided not to introduce it. It is not known whether the bill will be introduced at a later date or, if so, whether it will be modified to give consumers more rights than were expected in the original bill. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/56 "2007-12-31T16:24:21Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] It’s a self-defeating policy. Eventually they will alienate enough members of the general public that public pressure will lead to legal changes. Laws will be passed that are much more unfavorable to the RIAA then the ones they could have gotten by reasonable accomodation. [/QUOTE] I doubt this very highly. For every Doper who posts “oh yeah, I’m not buying anything else from RIAA artists!” (and I don’t believe that more than 1% will follow through on that, I mean, come on) there’s 1,000,000 other people who are going to quite happily send money in to pay for not just CDs and MP3 downloads, but for movies, XM radio licenses, to go to concerts, to in effect pay the RIAA more and more money. These companies all have power because YOU, yes YOU out there give them the power, and the vast lowing herds of rabble have no self control whatsoever to participate in a boycott. They might last for a week, maybe two, but as soon as their kid starts screaming “I want it!” they’ll open up the purse and buy it. The RIAA will win, and continue to win, because people in general like their addiction to music, movies, radio, and the ever-present TV too damn much. That’s an opinion, not fact. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/57 "2007-12-31T16:26:12Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] There will always be nations just out of reach of the laws (Sweden and China are the big ones now, maybe some African nations will be the next hotspots) but fully in reach of the Internet. [/QUOTE] Being Swedish, I just want to clarify something. The RIAA and MPAA have their tentacles here too, and Sweden has signed the Berne Convention along time ago. IOW, it’s just as illegal to fileshare here as it is in the U.S. However… A court case a couple of years ago resulted in the uploader (it was a Swedish production, BTW), got a heavy fine. This in turn means that the industry can’t get records from ISPs about who has what IP-number, since the cops will only get a warrant if the minimum sentencing would be two years jail time. It doesn’t stop the industry and their [del]bullies[/del] lawyers and lobbyists from trying the same kind of bullshit here that is mentioned in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/58 "2007-12-31T16:26:23Z")
[QUOTE=DrCube] I don’t agree with copyright laws. Downloading music isn’t stealing; listening to your buddy’s CDs isn’t stealing; watching videos on youtube isn’t stealing; reading books in the library isn’t stealing; in general, enjoying the fruits of someone else’s creativity without paying them is not stealing. [/QUOTE] Not a pitting, but a correction: libraries, and loaning out of physical books are generally seen to be covered by the fair use portion of most copyright law. One of the things that I hate most about the RIAA and MPAA’s drive on copyright is that they’re trying to gut fair use. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/59 "2007-12-31T16:31:36Z")
[QUOTE=acsenray] Remembering that this applies only to Canada: Not necessarily. I don’t know much about Canadian law, but my guess is that this is not a safe assumption. [/QUOTE] I know little of _any_ law. But I seem to have gleaned from somewhere (Judge Judy?) that you can expect to get something for your money. Remember, this is a _surcharge_, not a fine. Nor is it part of the cost of the tape. As described, it is a fee for copying intellectual property. A profit. ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755/60 "2007-12-31T16:33:24Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] So, how close an SO does the person have to be before this becomes a non issue, or is it always an issue? Can my wife rip a song onto a compilation CD for her own listening pleasure if I owned the CD prior to our marriage, or only if I bought it after? How about if she bought it after we were married, but I’m the only person who works, so it’s “my” money that she’s using? How about if it’s been previously ripped to her hard drive, but someone got drunk at our Xmas party and put the original CD in the microwave and wrecked it, can we still listen to the song? Suppose she grabs a CD that I had made from albums that I purchased and listens to it? Doesn’t this all seem pretty stupid to you? Wouldn’t adapting to new technologies benefit both the artist AND the record company, while also allowing the end user the freedom to utilize new technology? Of course it would, but doing so would mean giving up total control of the product, and the RIAA just can’t conceive of that, so they are vigorously alienating every person on the planet as they desperately flail about attempting to forestall their inevitable extinction. [/QUOTE] I don’t know why you’re arguing your points with me. I do not represent the RIAA or agree with any of their fair use bullshit. What I was saying is that the point of the OP is that the RIAA is saying you cannot rip a CD \*\*even for your own personal use. \*\* That’s what the debate is HERE (according to the OP), not if your wife can borrow your CDs or use them as coasters or whatever. The issue, as I understood it, is that you cannot even rip a CD for your OWN use. Obviously that means you can’t rip one for someone else’s use either, if that holds water. I didn’t say I agreed with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-to-tell-the-music-industry-to/431755.md?page=4)