# Time Warner is about to fuck you the fuck up **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 3, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664 "2008-06-03T18:41:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/1 "2008-06-03T18:41:17Z")
Time Warner is starting to experiment with capped bandwidth amounts and thorttled download speeds. From [yahoo news:](http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080602/tec_time_warner_cable_internet.html?.v=4) > [@](#): > > Time Warner Cable had said in January that it was planning to conduct the trial in Beaumont, but did not give any details. On Monday, Leddy said its tiers will range from $29.95 a month for relatively slow service at 768 kilobits per second and a 5-gigabyte monthly cap to $54.90 per month for fast downloads at 15 megabits per second and a 40-gigabyte cap. Those prices cover the Internet portion of subscription bundles that include video or phone services. Both downloads and uploads will count toward the monthly cap. [Also:](http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Time-Warner-Cable-To-Start-PerGigabyte-Fee-Trial-On-Thursday-94941) > [@](#): > > We think it’s the fairest way to finance the needed investment in the infrastructure," > -Time Warner Cable, on their new “over use” fees > The trial will apply a 40GB cap on their fastest 15Mbps tier, an idea I’m sure the folks at Verizon are thrilled with, given that tier is supposed to compete with their uncapped FiOS product. According to the Time Warner Cable memo from January obtained by Broadband Reports, the trial is, in part, an effort to perfect the marketing of per-byte billing The days of metered internet went out in the mid-90s, man! I feel that if TW deems this trial a success, it will spread to more locals. The worst part is that there are _many_ places that only have one provider for high-speed internet, and these people will get fucked. The price for the higher speed/cap is about what I pay now from Comcast, but I have NO limit on the amount I can download or upload, and that’s how I like it. Will the average user need more than 40 GB? Probably not, but the thing is, more and more “average” users are using more bandwidth then just a few years ago. People are downloading TV shows from iTunes, streaming movies from Netflix, sharing massive amounts of photos with friends and family. I see a lot of people just assuming that they don’t use a lot, going with the lower tiered option, and getting royally fucked by a sudden decrease in speed, and a HUGE monthly bill when they find out that it doesn’t take much to go over 5 GB in a month. ---
**Author:** ![dbuzman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de0a6/32.png) [@dbuzman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dbuzman)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/2 "2008-06-03T18:45:53Z")
Plus people that play MMORPG are constabtly downloading fron the game servers. ---
**Author:** ![Koldanar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@Koldanar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koldanar)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/3 "2008-06-03T18:50:31Z")
[QUOTE=dbuzman] Plus people that play MMORPG are constabtly downloading fron the game servers. [/QUOTE] Thats going to be the big one right there…in two weeks with Age of Conan I think I’ve downloaded 2-3 gigs of patches already, just from this one game. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/4 "2008-06-03T19:09:08Z")
[QUOTE=bouv] The price for the higher speed/cap is about what I pay now from Comcast, but I have NO limit on the amount I can download or upload, and that’s how I like it. [/QUOTE] Actually, there is a limit, Comcast just doesn’t admit it. Last I heard, it was 200GB when they finally admitted it. But, that was a year or two ago, so things could have changed. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/5 "2008-06-03T19:24:44Z")
How much difference would a 768kb/s speed limit make to a user on a wireless-G network? ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/6 "2008-06-03T19:40:07Z")
Sounds good to me. Why should people who only browse the web and check email pay for those who download a 7GB DVD rip every night? People who use more of the service should pay more. I mean, yeah, it’s kind of cool if you’re the guy downloading the DVDs - but under the current model, everyone else is subsidizing him. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/7 "2008-06-03T19:42:49Z")
Actually, it makes perfect sense. When you have a small percentage of users uses a large percentage of your services, others are subsidizing their use. How it gets implemented is where TWC can fuck it up. The users being targeted are not the average MMORPG players. The users being targeted are the file sharers, or businesses that count on unlimited bandwith being subsidized by other users. Perhaps the 12 hour/day player may run afoul of usage limits. I’m sure that line people at TWC have crunched the data, determined who was using the bandwith and how they were doing so, and communicated it up the line so that management can more effectively charge users for they’re real use. I’m sure management will screw it up. I can guarantee, putting $500,000 Doper bucks on the line, that prices will not go down for low/moderate use, which would make lots of sense. I know many users don’t like the idea, but to me, it is the same as charging every family sedan owner $50/week for gas, regardless of their actual usage. I would be paying for someone elses driving. Edit: Thanks **Absolut** , for jumping the queue. I need to type faster… ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/8 "2008-06-03T19:46:44Z")
> [@](#): > > “We think it’s the fairest way to finance the needed investment in the infrastructure,” I like how he says that without the slightest nod toward the heavily-subsidized first few rounds of infrastructure investment. ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/9 "2008-06-03T19:50:28Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Actually, it makes perfect sense. When you have a small percentage of users uses a large percentage of your services, others are subsidizing their use. … I know many users don’t like the idea, but to me, it is the same as charging every family sedan owner $50/week for gas, regardless of their actual usage. I would be paying for someone elses driving. [/QUOTE] By this logic, I should be expecting my check in the mail from **Guinastasia** pretty much any day now, right? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/10 "2008-06-03T19:50:54Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] The users being targeted are not the average MMORPG players. The users being targeted are the file sharers, or businesses that count on unlimited bandwith being subsidized by other users.. [/QUOTE] TWC already charges businesses more than residential users. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/11 "2008-06-03T19:54:16Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] How much difference would a 768kb/s speed limit make to a user on a wireless-G network? [/QUOTE] Your G theoretically runs at 54Mbit/s. So, basically 54,000Kb/s (pedants STFU). So, your internet connection would be about 1/70th the speed of the Wifi-G. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/12 "2008-06-03T19:57:45Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Your G theoretically runs at 54Mbit/s. So, basically 54,000Kb/s (pedants STFU). So, your internet connection would be about 1/70th the speed of the Wifi-G. -Joe [/QUOTE] I got the theory part - but I’ve never seen download speeds higher than 500kbps. Will it still make a difference? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/13 "2008-06-03T20:01:04Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] I know many users don’t like the idea, but to me, it is the same as charging every family sedan owner $50/week for gas, regardless of their actual usage. I would be paying for someone elses driving. [/QUOTE] This is a bad analogy though since gas gets used up and more has to be made. Once the fiber is run and the switches/routers installed, the actual cost of keeping that bandwidth live is minimal. Why don’t they charge people who make lots of local calls extra? Same argument. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/14 "2008-06-03T20:05:16Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] I got the theory part - but I’ve never seen download speeds higher than 500kbps. Will it still make a difference? [/QUOTE] Depends on what you have. If you genuinely have 768Kbps, you have the world’s shittiest cable connection. Mine runs about 8 times that. Also be aware that Kbps is one eighth of KBps. Check your download and see the size of your ‘B’. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/15 "2008-06-03T20:14:33Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Depends on what you have. If you genuinely have 768Kbps, you have the world’s shittiest cable connection. Mine runs about 8 times that. Also be aware that Kbps is one eighth of KBps. Check your download and see the size of your ‘B’. -Joe [/QUOTE] It could also be slow because cable is a shared connection. If his next-door neighbor has a lot of torrents going, or runs a server, it would cut into his bandwidth. And while I don’t doubt that market researchers figured out what the two “prime” GB usages are for low-level and mid-level users, I’m guessing that the management made those caps _just below_ those levels, ensuring that eleven months of out twelve, you’ll go over by a few gigabytes. Although I am actually impressed that they stated the cap in GB, and not Gb, since Gb would be eight times as big and sound more impressive to people that aren’t computer-savvy enough to know the difference. I mean, the DL and UL speeds are almost always quoted in Mbps, not MBps. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/16 "2008-06-03T20:15:36Z")
[QUOTE=Zakalwe] This is a bad analogy though since gas gets used up and more has to be made. Once the fiber is run and the switches/routers installed, the actual cost of keeping that bandwidth live is minimal. [/quote] Up to the point where the network becomes congested, this is true. If TWC is having congestion problems, they have to deal with it somehow, or else anyone trying to use a latency-sensitive application like streaming media, VoIP or online gaming will see unacceptable performance. > [@](#): > > Why don’t they charge people who make lots of local calls extra? Same argument. Because the usage patterns of people’s phone use doesn’t include a small subset of customers tying up a majority of the lines for 12+ hours per day. If bandwidth usage followed phone service usage then life would be very easy for ISPs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/17 "2008-06-03T20:23:35Z")
[QUOTE=bouv] It could also be slow because cable is a shared connection. If his next-door neighbor has a lot of torrents going, or runs a server, it would cut into his bandwidth. [/QUOTE] Performance has been about the same everywhere I’ve lived (Brighthouse Networks, which is the local version of TWC). I might have messed up on the size of the B… It took me about 45 minutes to download HL2 the other day, if that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/18 "2008-06-03T20:26:04Z")
[QUOTE=Rysto] Up to the point where the network becomes congested, this is true. If TWC is having congestion problems, they have to deal with it somehow, or else anyone trying to use a latency-sensitive application like streaming media, VoIP or online gaming will see unacceptable performance. [/QUOTE] But congestion is not a function of the amount downloaded. It’s a function of the speed at which it’s downloaded. Saying that you can only download X over Y time (when the bandwidth you’re paying for theoretically allows 10X over Y time) basically means that they aren’t selling you the bandwidth they say they are. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/19 "2008-06-03T20:57:35Z")
[QUOTE=Zakalwe] But congestion is not a function of the amount downloaded. It’s a function of the speed at which it’s downloaded. Saying that you can only download X over Y time (when the bandwidth you’re paying for theoretically allows 10X over Y time) basically means that they aren’t selling you the bandwidth they say they are. [/QUOTE] If you’re a residential customer, you aren’t getting guaranteed bandwidth. And you know that, so kindly quit it with that strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664/20 "2008-06-03T21:01:03Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Depends on what you have. If you genuinely have 768Kbps, you have the world’s shittiest cable connection. [/QUOTE] I have cable, and I’d be ecstatic to get 768 Kbps sustained. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/time-warner-is-about-to-fuck-you-the-fuck-up/451664.md?page=2)