# "Timeless" New Time Travel Show **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 4, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613 "2016-10-04T03:05:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/82 "2016-10-12T19:55:29Z")
> [@PaperBlob](#): > > This came up at the Timeless panel at NYC Comic Con last weekend. The answer the show’s producer(?) gave was that it takes years of training to pilot the time machine, and there are only two pilots: Rufus, and the Matt Frewer character, who was kidnapped by the bad(?) guys. They really should mention that in the show. As much as I enjoy “The Talking Dead”, it is notorious for having TWD staff explaining things presented in an episode. I would really prefer all the relevant information to be presented within the show. No supplementary reading/watching required. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/83 "2016-10-12T21:12:26Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > But what would have been different? Anything he would have done to help the former slaves would have almost certainly been undone after the Hayes-Tilden election. Besides, I don’t think Lincoln had any authority to take the land of the former slaveowners, short of having the Army take it by force. Still, I wonder how he would have dealt with Grant’s promise to Lee that all Confederate soldiers would be pardoned. > > On the other hand, remember that Lincoln was a Republican, and even back then, that meant money for the rich; tell Leland Stanford, Mark Hopkins, and Charles Crocker otherwise. Maybe it wouldn’t have changed much, but it would have made the show a lot more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/84 "2016-10-15T16:32:11Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > I doubt that they’d want to remind us of that concept, given that they are making HUGE changes to the past, yet come back to ‘nothing has changed except that the history books mention a different assassin of Lincoln’ or ‘nothing has changed except one character’s mother didn’t marry the same man.’ > > Okay, Bradbury’s “butterfly” thing is posited to have happened millions of years back, whereas this show’s changes go back only 151 years (so far). Still, it’s implausible that everything would be pretty much the same after all the changes they made: Grant was in a different place that day; Johnson was not in the presence of gunfire as depicted (his would-be assassin got drunk instead of trying to kill him); the people actually in the theater box with Lincoln were displaced in the show’s version and would have done different things. And of course that’s a very short excerpt from what would be a very long list of things changed by the show’s characters. > > Yeah, it’s only a TV show. But when it comes to high-concept, I like to be able to feel respect for the amount of thought the creators put into their story. This show is entertaining enough, but I suspect it’s too slapdash to be as compelling as any great cult show must be. The first episode played fast and loose with parts of history. They picked random famous names of people that weren’t scheduled to be on the return trip. My suspension of disbelief is pretty strong and I can’t predict what will take me out of a story. In this it was the black soldier using the term “human trader.” Was the network uncomfortable using the word slave? Would anyone back then use the term human trader? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/85 "2016-10-15T20:34:13Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The first episode played fast and loose with parts of history. They picked random famous names of people that weren’t scheduled to be on the return trip. > > My suspension of disbelief is pretty strong and I can’t predict what will take me out of a story. In this it was the black soldier using the term “human trader.” Was the network uncomfortable using the word slave? Would anyone back then use the term human trader? Very interesting point about “human trader.” I was inspired to check it in Ngram Viewer: NO results during the Civil War period. There’s a spike around 1920 and another around 2000: > **[Google Books Ngram Viewer](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=human%2Btrader&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Chuman%20trader%3B%2Cc0)** > > Google Ngrams: human trader, 1800-2000 If it wasn’t a term that anyone connected with the show would have seen in Civil War-era research (assuming they do research), then perhaps your surmise that it was used to avoid saying “slaver” is correct. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/86 "2016-10-15T22:08:57Z")
I was amused by their stealing the _Back To The Future_ name schtick. “This is Dr. Dre and I’m Nurse Jackie, and we’re from General Hospital.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2016, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/87 "2016-10-15T23:05:22Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > My suspension of disbelief is pretty strong and I can’t predict what will take me out of a story. In this it was the black soldier using the term “human trader.” Was the network uncomfortable using the word slave? Would anyone back then use the term human trader? I was more distracting by them _not_ using the term “nigger”, truth be told. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/88 "2016-10-16T01:45:32Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > I was amused by their stealing the _Back To The Future_ name schtick. > > “This is Dr. Dre and I’m Nurse Jackie, and we’re from General Hospital.” Or Supernatural who has been doing it for 12 seasons. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I was more distracting by them _not_ using the term “nigger”, truth be told. That I wouldn’t expect because it would be jarring and only used for effect. But I don’t understand what’s wrong with the term slave trader. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/89 "2016-10-16T02:22:48Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > That I wouldn’t expect because it would be jarring and only used for effect. I don’t know; in that context, a former-slave-turned-soldier angrily confronting a man (twice!) who he recognizes as impersonating a soldier? None of the white bystanders in the hotel after the attempt on Johnson is thwarted have any dialog, oddly and conveniently. Personally, I think it would have been most effectively (and dramatically) used casually, and while the 21st century character alone feels reflexive anger, he has to suppress it to keep his cover. If the show is going to explore time-crossed culture shock (I’m guessing all their adventures will take place in the historical U.S.), it should have some guts about it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/90 "2016-10-16T02:27:21Z")
They did some of that in the first episode, in which as I remember, the New Jersey cop called Rufus “boy” and later Rufus made a sarcastic comment about having to sit in the back of the bus. In general, I would expect the time travelers to get tripped up often when it comes to manners and personal interaction. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2016, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/91 "2016-10-16T02:45:39Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Or Supernatural who has been doing it for 12 seasons It is one of the many shows of which I haven’t seen even a single episode. _Timeless_ will join those that I have seen only twice. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/92 "2016-10-17T00:54:21Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > This one of those not too deep shows that I know I’ll enjoy without having to think too deep about. A couple of things that annoyed me. The cops were looking at the pistol from the future like it was a Buck Rogers ray gun. They might be slightly curious about the exact make but it’s not like semi-auto handguns were unheard of. There was a reason why the standard Army handgun was called the M1911. What bothered me was that his managers didn’t provide him with a supressed M1911. Or let him bring his from home. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/93 "2016-10-17T16:29:17Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > What bothered me was that his managers didn’t provide him with a supressed M1911. Or let him bring his from home. what gun is it? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/94 "2016-10-17T16:44:43Z")
Not as horrible a show as I thought it would be. What would be interesting as an experiment is if they took a printout about the historical event they are going to back with them then compare it to the same site when they get back. Is it bad that when I heard “Rittenhouse” I thought of James Cromwell’s character in _Deep Impact_? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/95 "2016-10-17T17:05:18Z")
“Printout”? My idea was two identical flash drives jam packed full of historical data. One taken with, the other left at HQ. ---
**Author:** ![Scoobysnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Scoobysnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoobysnax)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/96 "2016-10-17T18:51:34Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > “Printout”? My idea was two identical flash drives jam packed full of historical data. One taken with, the other left at HQ. That idea was actually used in a time travel adventure game from the mid 90s. In the game two hard drives were made containing the entire history of earth. One was kept in the present and the other was stored 100 million years ago. Whenever people are through to have altered history, someone is sent back in time to compare the data between the two drives to determine when the changes were made. Your job in the game is to fix the 3-4 points in time that have been altered and restore the proper timeline. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/97 "2016-10-17T19:01:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t know; in that context, a former-slave-turned-soldier angrily confronting a man (twice!) who he recognizes as impersonating a soldier? None of the white bystanders in the hotel after the attempt on Johnson is thwarted have any dialog, oddly and conveniently. > > Personally, I think it would have been most effectively (and dramatically) used casually, and while the 21st century character alone feels reflexive anger, he has to suppress it to keep his cover. If the show is going to explore time-crossed culture shock (I’m guessing all their adventures will take place in the historical U.S.), it should have some guts about it. If I wasn’t clear I meant jarring on a silly network TV show. Not jarring in historical context. The show contains some cultural issues but at it’s heart it is an adventure show. I’m not even sure the network sensors would allow it. > [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > It is one of the many shows of which I haven’t seen even a single episode. _Timeless_ will join those that I have seen only twice. Eric Kripke, one of the creators of _Timeless_, also created _Supernatural_. To me Supernatural is one of the most entertaining shows ever put on air. > [@DrDeth](#): > > what gun is it? I did not get a good enough look at it. It certainly wasn’t a Glock or a 1911 but other than that it could have been a Sig or Smith or several others that don’t look particularly memorable from a distance. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/98 "2016-10-17T19:18:26Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Not as horrible a show as I thought it would be. What would be interesting as an experiment is if they took a printout about the historical event they are going to back with them then compare it to the same site when they get back. Heck, just put all the research on a USB stick and toss it into the time-sphere. The real shocking moment might be when Rufus emerges with the USB stick and the base characters look at it and say “what’s that?” ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/99 "2016-10-17T21:01:44Z")
The problem with identical USB drives (or printouts) to track changes - what prevents those from getting changed with the timeline? The fact that they’re inside the time machine? Wouldn’t the data/writing just change along with the rest of recorded history like the pictures/faxes/newspaper headlines in _Back to the Future_? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/100 "2016-10-17T21:12:08Z")
In one of Robert Heinlein’s novels, the characters were traveling among parallel universes in which there were differences in Earth on each. (As I remember, in one, there was no J in the alphabet.) One character came up with the idea of obtaining an almanac in each universe, as it contains a nice summary of historical and other data. Except I don’t know if anyone still publishes paper almanacs any more. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613/101 "2016-10-17T21:13:26Z")
It reminds me of _Sliders_, what with the reality slightly shifting each week. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timeless-new-time-travel-show/767613.md?page=6)