# Timothy McVeigh is rotting in his grave **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415 "2005-08-03T13:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/41 "2005-08-03T15:47:34Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > If only we had better intelligence that could link individuals to such groups. It’s silly for authorities to treat a 52 year old woman from the midwest exactly the same as a 25 year old man from Saudi Arabia. Of the two the man from Arabia is more likely to pose a threat. > > Marc But not much more likely. Maybe we should stick to only men coming out of church. I agree that we need better intelligence though. We should be focusing on that. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/42 "2005-08-03T15:53:11Z")
If I may be so bold, this thread seems to be a lame attempt to turn public opinion against an argument that they can’t handle. Pretty whiny really. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/43 "2005-08-03T16:00:42Z")
Can we bring up Eric Rudolph, Stephen John Jordi, or Paul J. Hill? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/44 "2005-08-03T16:01:43Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I think he’s talking about terrorism worldwide. I mean if you draw arbitrary lines, then you can say that all terrorism is conducted by Americans — meaning in Oklahoma City. Well, then it surely depends on what time frame you want to use, and what _types_ of terrorist attacks you want to focus on. If we’re going to move beyond the boundaries of the United States, then why should we focus only on Muslim extremists, as some people seem so keen to do? Why not go back to groups like the Brigate Rosse and Baader Meinhof? Or the IRA? Or ETA? Or Hindu extremists in India who attack Muslims? Or any one of the various guerilla groups—left and right—that have made a habit of terrorising civilians in Central and South America? I acknowledge that Muslim extremism and terrorism is the most obvious and prevalent form right now. What annoys me is when people extrapolate from this to make assertions that Muslims are somehow unique in using terror to try and get their way. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/45 "2005-08-03T16:21:11Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > The 70’s? I don’t know about the Swedes, Welshmen and Canadians… I do: [October Crisis]([October - Wikipedia](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/October) Crisis) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/46 "2005-08-03T16:23:50Z")
What the fuck does the fact that McVeigh is dead have to do with anything? Does the OP think that the people who use McVeigh as an example are suggesting that looking for non-Arab terrorists is only to look for McVeigh, personally, and no other non-Arab terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/47 "2005-08-03T16:33:54Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > I agree with that as well… Clinton’s been out of office for 5 years now and it’s time to let it go. Yesterday I saw a I’M NOT FOND’A HANOI JANE bumpersticker. Wasn’t it 40 years ago and hasn’t she since said she regretted what she did? With all the other shit going on is this really something to still go on about? /peevish hijack ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/48 "2005-08-03T16:37:58Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > If only we had better intelligence that could link individuals to such groups. It’s silly for authorities to treat a 52 year old woman from the midwest exactly the same as a 25 year old man from Saudi Arabia. Of the two the man from Arabia is more likely to pose a threat. > > Marc If that happens, then the terrorists will simply start using 52 year-old white women (or reasonable facsimiles of same). Palestinian terrorists have been using women and Jewish dress for a while now. The best thing to do is a combination of behavioral profiling and random searches. The former nabs “unconventional” looking terrorists, and the latter helps eliminate all biases of the searchers and captures unwitting pawns of terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/49 "2005-08-03T16:59:24Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Yesterday I saw a > > I’M NOT FOND’A > HANOI JANE > > bumpersticker. Wasn’t it 40 years ago and hasn’t she since said she regretted what she did? With all the other shit going on is this really something to still go on about? > > /peevish hijack [Jane Fonda to make Cross-Country Tour to Oppose Iraq War (and hype her autobiography)](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050725/ap_on_en_mo/people_fonda) Once an attention whore, always an attention whore. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/50 "2005-08-03T17:00:36Z")
Am I the only one whose brain keeps trying to sing this thread title to the tune of “John Brown’s Body”? Probably. Just thought I’d mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/51 "2005-08-03T17:02:57Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > Am I the only one whose brain keeps trying to sing this thread title to the tune of “John Brown’s Body”? > > Probably. Just thought I’d mention it. If you change “rotting” to “mouldering”, it works pretty well. Just thought I’d help. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/52 "2005-08-03T17:16:05Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, then it surely depends on what time frame you want to use, and what _types_ of terrorist attacks you want to focus on. If we’re going to move beyond the boundaries of the United States, then why should we focus only on Muslim extremists, as some people seem so keen to do? Why not go back to groups like the Brigate Rosse and Baader Meinhof? Or the IRA? Or ETA? Or Hindu extremists in India who attack Muslims? Or any one of the various guerilla groups—left and right—that have made a habit of terrorising civilians in Central and South America? > > I acknowledge that Muslim extremism and terrorism is the most obvious and prevalent form right now. What annoys me is when people extrapolate from this to make assertions that Muslims are somehow unique in using terror to try and get their way. Why does something so simple and transparent have to be spelled out? Of interest to most Americans is current terrorism against America, its colonies, and its allies. Most of that takes place on foreign soil and is done by non-Americans. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/53 "2005-08-03T17:28:56Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > So quit pulling him out every time someone mentions “muslim” and “terrorist” in the same sentence. He’s now the exception that proves the rule. > > I’m fucking tired of the endless reaching back in time to point out that yes, white American Timothy McVeigh was an honest to goodness terrorist. We get it. He’s dead and thank god for that. Let’s move on and confront terrorism and civilian murders in 2005. > > We almost need a new Godwin’s law for McVeigh. I’d reccomend replacing “You do know that Timothy McVeigh was a white American” with Eric Rudolph. He at least did somehing in the last decade. McVeigh is not an exception, and other bastard local terrorists are still doing stuff in this decade, the problem is, very little is reported about them and so McVeigh is the name that has recognition: [http://www.thememoryhole.org/terror/tyler-terror.htm](http://www.thememoryhole.org/terror/tyler-terror.htm) > [@](#): > > Nov 26, 2003, 3:30 pm US/Central > CBS 11, Dallas/Fort Worth [Link, includes video] > By Robert Riggs > With Investigative Producer Todd Bensman > > Federal authorities this year mounted one of the most extensive investigations of domestic terrorism since the Oklahoma City bombing, CBS 11 has learned. > > Three people linked to white supremacist and anti-government groups are in custody. At least one weapon of mass destruction - a sodium cyanide bomb capable of delivering a deadly gas cloud - has been seized in the Tyler area. > > Investigators have seized at least 100 other bombs, bomb components, machine guns, 500,000 rounds of ammunition and chemical agents. But the government also found some chilling personal documents indicating that unknown co-conspirators may still be free to carry out what appeared to be an advanced plot. And, authorities familiar with the case say more potentially deadly cyanide bombs may be in circulation. > > Since arresting the three people in May, federal agents have served hundreds of subpoenas across the country in a domestic terror investigation that made it onto President Bush’s daily intelligence briefings and set off national security alarms among the country’s most senior counter-terror officials. > > William J. Krar, originally from New Hampshire, last week pleaded guilty in Tyler federal court to possession of a chemical weapon near the East Texas town of Noonday. He faces up to ten years in prison. His common-law wife, Judith Bruey, pleaded guilty to lesser weapons charges and faces up to five years in prison. > > Also arrested this past Spring was Newark, New Jersey resident Edward Feltus. The New Jersey Militia member has pleaded guilty to attempting to purchase fake United Nations and Department of Defense identity cards from Krar. > > All three have steadfastly maintained their silence, even though talking could reduce their prison sentences, and the investigation has stalled for now. Evidence seized and the fact that none of the defendants will talk has given rise to speculation that unknown conspirators may be still be involved in a broader plot to use Krar’s home-built chemical weapons, government officials say. > **[The terror threat at home, often overlooked](https://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1229/p02s01-usju.html)** > > As the media focus on international terror, a Texan pleads guilty to possessing a weapon of mass destruction. > [@](#): > > The terror threat at home, often overlooked > While Mr. Pitcavage was surprised the Krar case did not receive more attention, “It is a fact that a lot of stories involving domestic extremists get undercovered,” he says. He points to a case he calls one of “the major terrorist plots of the 1990s” in which militia from around the country converged in central Texas allegedly to attack a military base. They were arrested at a campground near Fort Hood on the morning of July 4, 1997, with a large collection of weapons and explosives. “There was virtually no media coverage of that incident either,” says Pitcavage. Until a name like Krar is well known the example of McVeigh will have to do, and once again, he is not an exception. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/54 "2005-08-03T17:41:41Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > Am I the only one whose brain keeps trying to sing this thread title to the tune of “John Brown’s Body”? > > Probably. Just thought I’d mention it. Not anymore. Bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/55 "2005-08-03T17:44:05Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > Sure, I remember during the 70’s and 80’s when all those flag waving American terrorist hijacked planes, threw crippled old men overboard into the sea, murdered members of the Israel olympic team in Munich, and of course we’ve had all those suicide bombings in Idaho. Don’t forget all those things being down by Swedes, Welshman, Japanese, and Canadians. > > It makes sense to focus some of our scrutiny on people who come from Muslim nations like Saudi-Arabia. It’s silly to pretend otherwise. Just like we should keep track of people who might be likely to use violence against gay bars or abortion clinics. > > Marc Why don’t you ask the grandson of Lord Mountbaden if he agrees with you. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/56 "2005-08-03T17:50:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Who has said that all terrorists are arabs? Well, [these guys](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/03/transit.security.ap/index.html), for instance. Which is exactly why people keep bringing up McVeigh, to counter the claims that we should treat all Muslims and Arabs with greater suspicion than we treat others. Although, IMO a better response would be that protecting the rights of Muslims to be treated the same as everyone else is _more important_ than sparing the NYPD the burden of screening baggage indiscriminantly. ---
**Author:** ![Domokun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c77e96/32.png) [@Domokun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Domokun)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/57 "2005-08-03T18:03:40Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > The 70’s? I don’t know about the Swedes, Welshmen… You want to watch those tricksy Welshmen. [http://www.welshpedia.co.uk/wiki/wales/index.php?title=Meibion\_Glyndwr](http://www.welshpedia.co.uk/wiki/wales/index.php?title=Meibion_Glyndwr) [http://www.welshdragon.net/resources/Articles/arson.shtml](http://www.welshdragon.net/resources/Articles/arson.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/58 "2005-08-03T18:10:55Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > If that happens, then the terrorists will simply start using 52 year-old white women (or reasonable facsimiles of same). Palestinian terrorists have been using women and Jewish dress for a while now. Exactly. as soon as we decide to exclude any particular group as being potential terrorists, all we’re doing is telling the terrorists to use that group for their missions. And hey, OP, let’s not forget…Timothy McVeigh was WHITE! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/59 "2005-08-03T18:27:25Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > So quit pulling him out every time someone mentions “muslim” and “terrorist” in the same sentence. He’s now the exception that proves the rule. > > I’m fucking tired of the endless reaching back in time to point out that yes, white American Timothy McVeigh was an honest to goodness terrorist. We get it. He’s dead and thank god for that. Let’s move on and confront terrorism and civilian murders in 2005. Thank you thank you thank you for saying this. Onward. Please. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415/60 "2005-08-03T18:35:44Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > > [@Liberal](#): > > > > Who has said that all terrorists are arabs? > > Well, [these guys](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/03/transit.security.ap/index.html), for instance. Hmmm. NYC subway security. That reminds me: You know who’s _not_ dead? [Larry Wayne Harris](http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/special/1998/feb/19/506854794.html), and the many like-minded “patriots” and “christians” who think he’s a hero. > [@](#): > > In background information in the affidavit, the FBI said that last summer Harris described plans for the New York attack. > > “[Larry Wayne Harris] told a group of plans to place a ‘globe’ of bubonic plague toxins in a New York subway station, where it would be broken by a passing subway train, causing hundreds of thousands of deaths. Harris stated that the Iraqis would be blamed for that event.” > > The affidavit added: “Harris had stated that the New York subway attack would ruin the economy and take the military by surprise.” Gee, a paranoid, ultra-right, Aryan Nations/Christian Identity nut. Like Timothy McVeigh. Go figure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/timothy-mcveigh-is-rotting-in-his-grave/315415.md?page=4)