# Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy - a technical question (I think) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 30, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784 "2011-12-30T01:59:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/61 "2012-02-01T04:19:34Z")
One thing I liked was that when Control is briefing Prideaux and assigning the titular code-names, he doesn’t give a code name for the last person - Smiley. But since only Beggerman and Thief are available, it has to be one of those, and I guess either would do, so it doesn’t need to be specified (they should have left one free as a wild-card though, in my opinion). Then later when Prideaux is a schoolmaster, he asks one of the boys “who’s that over there? Beggerman? Thief?” And, yeah, it was Smiley. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/62 "2012-02-01T05:04:29Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Dear God, are Oldman, Hurt, and Firth really that damned good? Yep. Three excellent character actors. Or maybe two excellent and one quite good one. I think Firth might have a bit less range than the first two, but he is very good within in it. And of course to be fair actors with less range than Oldman = _everyone_ ;). > [@Equipoise](#): > > Falling asleep at a movie never, EVER is a reflection on the movie, it’s a reflection on the person falling asleep. Tch. I think it can easily be both IMO. I do appreciate your enthusiasm for good film **Equipoise** , but with all due respect I do think you’re sometimes prone to being a little over-heated and combative on behalf of filmmakers. **HennaDancer** ’s reactions to the film perplex me slightly. But at the end of the day it scarcely merits more than a raised eyebrow and as **lisiate** noted a murmured _de gustibus_ covers most of the ground. I loved it, but I can actually see how someone might have trouble navigating the complex plot ( witness parts of this thread ) and/or be put off by the dingy 1970’s look. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/63 "2012-02-01T05:45:43Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Yep. Three excellent character actors. Or maybe two excellent and one quite good one. I think Firth might have a bit less range than the first two, but he is very good within in it. And of course to be fair actors with less range than Oldman = _everyone_ ;). I watched Oldman tonight, really watched him, and my loving God in Heaven, I had no idea. > [@](#): > > I loved it, but I can actually see how someone might have trouble navigating the complex plot ( witness parts of this thread ) and/or be put off by the dingy 1970’s look. You had to read the book. Yes, I know that pisses people off, but the movie was the Readers Digest condensed version. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/64 "2012-02-01T06:38:27Z")
It’s dense. Nobody is going to pick up everything on the first viewing. A viewer needs to pay attention and stop asking questions and get used to the idea of seeing it again. Repeated viewings are even better. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/65 "2012-02-01T10:15:34Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Fair enough I suppose, and that pond did look pretty murky to me. ALthough as another glasses wearer I must say I take mine off when swimming as a rule… He was swimming in [Hampstead Heath](http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Environment_and_planning/Parks_and_open_spaces/Hampstead_Heath/Swimming.htm). Apparently it was cold that day… Loved the movie & will definitely buy it for closer examination. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/66 "2012-02-01T11:46:41Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > You had to read the book. Yes, I know that pisses people off, but the movie was the Readers Digest condensed version. Come on, half my posts in this thread have mentioned I haven’t read the book. I had no major problems following it or enjoying it. And a movie should stand on its own. If you have to have read the book first, then the movie was done badly. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/67 "2012-02-01T19:44:51Z")
To be fair, this film has as much to do with the book as Borat’s swimming costume does to a hand made suit. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/68 "2012-02-01T19:55:02Z")
Having now finished watching the 1979 television series with Alec Guinness, I’ll have to say that I’m amazed that the six-hour TV series and the two-hour movie are nearly identical in narrative/plot content. The TV series just does things slower with longer conversations. The TV series had a character, Roddy Martindale, that was left out of the movie. But the movie also had more interactions with members of the cabinet, which helped established the seriousness of the matter. Overall, in terms of scope, depth, and detail, I found few substantial difference between the two. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/69 "2012-02-01T20:01:42Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > To be fair, this film has as much to do with the book as Borat’s swimming costume does to a hand made suit. What are your major objections to the film? Aside from the minor theme of homosexuality in the secret service–which is based on history, although Le Carre couldn’t be as truthful back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/70 "2012-02-01T20:19:45Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > One thing I liked was that when Control is briefing Prideaux and assigning the titular code-names, he doesn’t give a code name for the last person - Smiley. But since only Beggerman and Thief are available, it has to be one of those, and I guess either would do, so it doesn’t need to be specified (they should have left one free as a wild-card though, in my opinion). > > Then later when Prideaux is a schoolmaster, he asks one of the boys “who’s that over there? Beggerman? Thief?” And, yeah, it was Smiley. Ohh, good catch, I’ll watch out for that when I do a rewatch. > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > What are your major objections to the film? Aside from the minor theme of homosexuality in the secret service–which is based on history, although Le Carre couldn’t be as truthful back in the day. And when you think about it who would be better qualified for a life in the shadows than someone who has to hide their sexuality all their adult lives? Of course the downside is they’re a huge blackmail target as well I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/71 "2012-02-01T20:27:05Z")
IIRC, ther is a minor theme of homosexuality in the LeCarre novles. I remember the plot of one of the books includes a spy being in danger of being outed. I loved the movie. It’s so nice to see a movie made for adults that expects the viewer to pay attention. My wife also loved it and she never read any LeCarre. ETA: lots of typos, I cut hand bad, stitches, bad juju. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/72 "2012-02-01T20:53:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Having now finished watching the 1979 television series with Alec Guinness, I’ll have to say that I’m amazed that the six-hour TV series and the two-hour movie are nearly identical in narrative/plot content. The TV series just does things slower with longer conversations. > > The TV series had a character, Roddy Martindale, that was left out of the movie. But the movie also had more interactions with members of the cabinet, which helped established the seriousness of the matter. Overall, in terms of scope, depth, and detail, I found few substantial difference between the two. That was exactly my reaction when I recently re-watched the TV series. (I had also read the book, but that was eons ago.) Not that this is a criticism of either. British drama series of that period were just much, much slower. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/73 "2012-02-01T22:30:30Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > What are your major objections to the film? Aside from the minor theme of homosexuality in the secret service–which is based on history, although Le Carre couldn’t be as truthful back in the day. I thought it worked well, even if many people seem to have been impressed by the ‘atmosphere’. My only objection is with comparing it to a book of the same name. As I mentioned up thread, this version strips out everything almost everything except the main plotline and populates that with significant scenes. Le Carre is an awful lot better than this product implies. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/74 "2012-02-01T23:35:23Z")
Well how else were they going to fit the whole thing into a movie? And yet despite all the streamlining it’s still too complicated for viewers like **hennadancer** to follow. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/75 "2012-02-01T23:44:16Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Le Carre is an awful lot better than this product implies. I can agree with that. Who knew there was a spook who could write? ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/76 "2012-02-04T22:43:12Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I also found I admired it more than I enjoyed it. Nicely put! I enjoyed it well enough – and holy shit Gary Oldman is amazing, even when he plays a very non-dynamic character – but I _really_ admired the film, the way it just went for it and figured some would keep up with it, and some wouldn’t, but that’s OK. I wish Hollywood would make more films like it, that reward you for paying attention (or, perhaps more accurately, punish you for not paying attention). After viewing, I thought there was a lot I probably missed, but upon reading a synopsis it doesn’t seem so. The only part I don’t get is How Smiley knew it was Tailor. There’s a scene where a lookout reports Tinker showing up, then Tailor, then Soldier, and there’s some brief shots of Guillam shifting about nervously with his gun, and Smiley fidgeting (for him) with his Rolaids, and next thing we know there’s Smiley with a gun pointed at Colin Firth. What did he do, that Alleline and Blunt didn’t, that tipped Smiley off? Other than that confusion, great movie. And holy hell, **Equipose** \*, you are insufferable. You must be the worst person in the world to watch a movie with. [sub]\* P.S. _Drive_ sucked. Poorly acted, miscast, nonsensical motivation for the characters, plodding, weak ending. Just awful. So there.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/77 "2012-02-05T03:24:34Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > And holy hell, **Equipose** \*, you are insufferable. You must be the worst person in the world to watch a movie with. Why? I don’t constantly lean over to my husband asking him what just happened. I don’t talk at all, or text or use my phone. I don’t even eat popcorn to make noise. And what makes you think I’d care that you don’t like Drive? I liked it fine, especially Albert Brooks (who really should have been nominated for an Oscar) but it’s not in my Top 10 or anything. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/78 "2012-02-05T07:02:27Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > The only part I don’t get is > > How Smiley knew it was Tailor. There’s a scene where a lookout reports Tinker showing up, then Tailor, then Soldier, and there’s some brief shots of Guillam shifting about nervously with his gun, and Smiley fidgeting (for him) with his Rolaids, and next thing we know there’s Smiley with a gun pointed at Colin Firth. What did he do, that Alleline and Blunt didn’t, that tipped Smiley off? My response to that. Definitely spoiler as it is about the end of the movie. [spoiler]Smiley did not figure out it was Tailor (Colin Firth) until Tailor showed up at the safe house. Smiley had figured out the game that Karla was playing and set up a trap. He sent Tarr to Paris to have it reported back to the three remaining suspects that he had surfaced. Smiley knew that whichever of the three (having already determined that Soldier had been fooled into it) was the actual mole would immediately head to the safe house to report it back to Karla so that Tarr could be killed. So he just waited to see who would show up.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/79 "2012-02-05T07:03:43Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Why? Because, given the way you react around here when someone disagrees with you on a movie you love, one worries that when it happens in person, violence might result. Or at least an embarrassing scene. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784/80 "2012-02-05T13:16:14Z")
If anyone has a problem with **Equipoise** , please start a Pit thread to discuss it. This is not the place. Thanks, **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-a-technical-question-i-think/607784.md?page=5)