# Tiny anomalies/artifacts found on the ground in Apollo photos **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2001, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835 "2001-08-18T00:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bozola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@Bozola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozola)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/61 "2001-08-19T04:22:44Z")
Gee, Piper…errr…Seethruart, looks like no one agrees with you in any forum you seem to join. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/62 "2001-08-19T07:16:10Z")
> [@](#): > > None of you posted any opinions in my guest book. Point the first: As has been pointed out, this is a lie. You, sir, are a hypocrite of the first order. Remember, kids, payest not attention to the liar who accuses others of lying. Point the second: Why should we? Your site is about as accurate as a cross-eyed Asshole gunner on _Spaceball I_. Here’s a thought: If you really are honest, and really are more than a charlatan (and a bad one, t’boot), start with addressing the rebuttals to your site. > [@](#): > > I don’t believe any of you are capable of anything but denial, insults and character assassination… In other words: “I know I’m wrong, but I can’t accept it, so I’ll just act like a martyr.” Sorry, bub, you’re not the first fake to come strolling through our doors… get another act. > [@](#): > > …and I don’t tolerate that from people with such small and closed minds. Please describe in detail how everyone who posted to this thread has a “closed mind”. You, sir, are the one with isolated mental facilities… as I said, you can prove otherwise by providing rebuttal to the criticisms of your work, and addressing the questions that have been asked of you. > [@](#): > > As I thought, not one of you questioned NASA about this, you only attacked the messenger. How do you know we haven’t questioned NASA about it? We know the facts. Your evidence is paltry, at best. Apparently, you have a screw loose. > [@](#): > > Not many of you even looked at the images. How do you know? That’s right. You DON’T. You’re simply **ass** uming. > [@](#): > > You simply denied it without even taking a peak. Because you are afraid of the truth. Afraid of the “truth”? Why? Why should we, who have absolutely nothing to lose if your theory is accurate, be afraid that your crackpot ideas have any shred of accuracy? We simply don’t accept such bizarre claims without tangible evidence. Your cheap, shoddy website and half-assed, poor-quality images with amateurish improvement of the images do NOT qualify as “tangible evidence”. Actually, it looks like the work of a bored 12-year-old. > [@](#): > > My sole purpose for posting a link here was to show that very thing. No, your sole purpose for posting a link was to get more hits for your sad attempt at “proof”. Sorry, you Mulder wannabe, the truth may be out there, but it sure doesn’t lie with you. > [@](#): > > . I have already successfully shown that to many honest people across the net… Big deal. I’ve shown goat sex to many honest people across the net. > [@](#): > > …because honest people have no reason to deny everything at my site… So what you’re saying is this: We should accept everything you say, without question, and yet you demand that we ignore everything NASA says? Why are YOU more credible than NASA? What are YOUR credentials? What alterior motive do YOU have? > [@](#): > > …because they personally have nothing to hide, and they have nothing to fear from the Apollo missions being proven as faked. We also have nothing to fear from it being faked. Do you have any reason to think otherwise? > [@](#): > > The same can not be said of the participants on this message board. Sure you think that, 'cuz you’re wrong. So, to sum up, Mr. Art, you have to answer the following questions: 1. What are you trying to prove, and why? 2. How does your “evidence” show this? 3. Why are you more credible than NASA? Why should we take your word for all this? 4. Why would we “fear” your supposed “truth”? 5. How come you seem to be the only person who sees this “evidence” of yours? 6. Why do you have a “shuttle” fetish? Until you can answer those questions satisfactorily, you have no credibility, and therefore will be labeled a fraud. And Ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/63 "2001-08-19T07:19:43Z")
Obviously, the alien mind control beams have already gotten to SPOOFE. No sane human would ever question the amazing works of a bored individual in possession of Photoshop. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/64 "2001-08-19T21:06:28Z")
I tried looking at the images while wearing my tinfoil helmet, they still just look like rocks, what am I doing wrong? ---
**Author:** ![super\_head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@super\_head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/super_head)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/65 "2001-08-19T21:47:14Z")
Did you turn your monitor sideways and squint very hard while stretching pantyhose across your face? I did, and I swear I saw Liberace in the rocks. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/66 "2001-08-19T21:54:39Z")
Yeah, tried that too; it must be the drugs (I wasn’t taking any) ---
**Author:** ![MrO](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@MrO](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrO)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/67 "2001-08-19T22:39:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by super\_head \* > \*\*Did you turn your monitor sideways and squint very hard while stretching pantyhose across your face? I did, and I swear I saw Liberace in the rocks. \*\* I tried this, and saw something completely different. Oh, you mean I was supposed to take my wife _out_ of the pantyhose first? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/68 "2001-08-19T23:03:02Z")
Well, I signed the guestbook, I wonder how long before my comments are deleted. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2001, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/69 "2001-08-19T23:34:32Z")
The conspiracy theories are self fulling. If you hand drooling morons a photo, they drool on it. Then they look down, see the drool, and come to the conclusion that the drool is a foreign object in the photo. This sets them drooling even more and shaking their heads with excitement, spraying more and more drool over more and more photos, creating more and more proof of foreign objects. ---
**Author:** ![PlanMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@PlanMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlanMan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/70 "2001-08-20T00:27:22Z")
So in the rover photos … oops the “round structure” photos, we have an alien eye, obviously of a very large alien buried up to its eyeballs - it has to be large in comparison the round structure. But in other photos we have [sub]leeeeettle teeeeny shuttles[/sub] - so how do the really big aliens fit into those tiny space ships? And since every thinking person knows the Apollo missions and photos are fakes, the big aliens in tiny ships came to the secret NASA sound stage at Groom Lake. ---
**Author:** ![Albert\_Rose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Albert\_Rose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albert_Rose)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/71 "2001-08-20T02:49:56Z")
Hey, **Seethruart** , I checked out the pictures on your [website](http://user.tninet.se/~prv247p/hatt/hatten.swf). I couldn’t discern the things I think I was supposed to. Did I go to the wrong place? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/72 "2001-08-20T10:02:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Well, I signed the guestbook, I wonder how long before my comments are deleted. \*\* I’ve just signed it too, eleven hours after **Mangetout** did. With one other entry in between, three of the book’s five entries think Seethruart is full of it. Let’s see how long they last. The other two entries are comprised of one praising Seethruart’s work, closely followed by a note of thanks by Seethruart himself. Those two entries are two months old. Other than that, the book is empty. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/73 "2001-08-20T21:48:06Z")
Well, I checked out those entries on **Seethruart** ’s guestbook this morning and they were still there. A check just a few moments ago revealed that the guestbook has now been changed to “private” status. Entries are no longer visible. And where is **Seethruart** anyway? He hasn’t posted here in a while, even in threads beyond this one. Personally, I have the feeling that he was just a drive-by. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/74 "2001-08-20T21:57:46Z")
Chas.E said: > [@](#): > > BUT… I will cite this page: > [http://swampgas.50megs.com/see/](http://swampgas.50megs.com/see/) Great page. Too bad the author doesn’t have contact info. I’d email him the following. From his page: > [@](#): > > You can see now where the dish is and the antenna thingy labeled B. are in relation to the supposed “second dish”. I don’t have any idea what the purpose of the contraption labeled A. is, but it is a part of the rover. Checking The Apollo Lunar Surface Journal, I have identified the object in question. It is the lunar rake. [http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/tools/Welcome.html](http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/tools/Welcome.html) > [@](#): > > Figure 37: Rake in use on the Moon (141k) [http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/tools/judy37.jpg](http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/tools/judy37.jpg) > Apollo 16 photo AS16-116-18690 shows Charlie Duke dragging the Apollo rake through the soil at Station 10-Prime near the LM at the end of EVA-3. The tine spacing is 1 cm and the rake was used to collect rocks of this size or larger. The closed, metal side also let the astronauts use the rake to collect a soil sample from the rake site. > > Figure 38: Rake (67k) [http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/tools/judy38.jpg](http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/tools/judy38.jpg) > Lunar rake showing the stainless-steel tines, the aluminum sidewalls on the basket, and the adjustable-angle handle. The handle angle was adjusted by squeezing the flat plates just above the pivot, rotating the head, and releasing the plates. The rake weighed 1.6 kg and the basket dimensions were 29.4 by 29.4 by 10.4 cm. The rake is one of the tools stowed on the aft pallet. Pretty simple to identify if you know where to look. Atreyu said: > [@](#): > > However, the claims of the hoaxers have been thoroughly debunked. I’d start here [[http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html](http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html) ] for a good debunking. Only problem is SeeThruArt (aka Piper) has already been there _and_ been thoroughly debunked himself there as well. Of course that board has a high turnover rate of posts (no archiving), and he keeps showing back up reposting the same drivel periodically, refusing to address criticisms there except in the same manner here - i.e. saying that anyone that disagrees with him or challenges him is an idiot that refuses to see the truth blah blah blah. Broken record time. Mangetout said: > [@](#): > > I tried looking at the images while wearing my tinfoil helmet, they still just look like rocks, what am I doing wrong? super\_head said: > [@](#): > > Did you turn your monitor sideways and squint very hard while stretching pantyhose across your face? Funny, but not as funny as the actual self-identified method for viewing. SeeThruArt takes jpeg compressed images from various websites (now mostly using the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal, since we pointed it out to him) and then _studies them on his monitor with a magnifying glass_. Followed by magnifying said jpeg compressed images with Photoshop as if that will fill in the missing detail. In case you didn’t figure it out from his postings, SeeThruArt claims that the moon landings are a hoax, and his proof is that the pictures are all fakes. See according to him, NASA used high altitude pictures (probably from robotic probes) as background terrain and overlayed pictures from studio pictures. That way the moon terrain is actual moon terrain, but from really high up. Then any boxy or otherwise “peculiar” shapes in the jpegs are really artifacts of extraterrestrials on the moon that somehow NASA missed before making the “fake” pictures. Either that, or they are very tiny moon aliens. Or something. Despite having had described how jpeg compressions work, and how picture resolution is limited by the original scan resolution, and how Photoshop cannot create more detail than the jpeg has, he still continues to post the same tired drivel. And then ignore any serious rebuttals and instead say everyone is just a NASA/government puppet too stupid to see the truth. jab1 asked: > [@](#): > > Maybe you can tell me how they focused the cameras without viewfinders. I know that Apollo really went to the Moon, I’m just not clear on a few of the minor details. Chas. E. is pretty much right on the money. They set the cameras on infinity focus, and took wide angle pictures. All they had to do was point the camera in the right direction, which they had practiced with training rigs on the ground. [http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/moon/1.htm](http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/moon/1.htm) ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2001, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/75 "2001-08-20T23:10:30Z")
I was pretty sure that’s how they used the cameras; I just wanted confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2001, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/76 "2001-08-21T03:34:44Z")
I notice that Mr. Art has set his Guestbook to be private… not to be seen by the “public”. Seems like HE’S the one that’s afraid of being wrong… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2001, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/77 "2001-08-21T07:30:43Z")
Hahahaha! Private guestbook, since yesterday morning. So, Seethru, who is suppressing the truth? You or NASA? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2001, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/78 "2001-08-21T07:35:44Z")
I didn’t realise that the original images seethru was looking at started as JPGs, that explains a whole lot; Jpegs are a ‘lossy’ format, the uncompressed image looks acceptably similar to the original (for web pages etc), but lacks some (or much, depending on the compression ratio) of the detail of the original, furthermore, blocky ‘artifacts’ in the uncompressed image are not at all uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Valiant\_Dancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@Valiant\_Dancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valiant_Dancer)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2001, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/79 "2001-08-21T16:11:23Z")
I would like to appologize for Seethruart aka Piper. He originally was on the Bad Astronomy BBS. ([www.badastronomy.com](http://www.badastronomy.com)) He is an individual who is quite set in his ways and will not shift them short of a thermonuclear blast. (Maybe not even then.) He holds these convictions with a religious fervor not seen since Heaven’s Gate and the Branch Davidians. To give you all a little insight into his rationale (or lack thereof) I will include a quote from a post he made on the Bad Astronomy BBS. > [@](#): > > I’ll admit, it’s a strange way to fake the moon landings, but it made it possible for NASA to get away with it for over thirty years, \*\* and they probably would have gotten away with it forever had I not come along.\*\* Not only was it a strange way to fake the moon landings, there are some very strange and fantastic little artificial things on the ground in those Apollo photos. It’s been quite an adventure and education for me, and it’s no where near over yet. Emphasis mine. Again, I appologize for the little lunatic coming over here and bothering people. We hoped he wouldn’t infect other places. We’ve been debunking his rants for quite some time. ---
**Author:** ![Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/258eb7/32.png) [@Wonko\_The\_Sane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wonko_The_Sane)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2001, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835/80 "2001-08-21T16:57:15Z")
I was going to make up a little rant on how seethruart should not post so much to a board that is obviously monitored by the illuminati/CIA/pentagel; so he should not post this stuff, because the black helicopters will be at his house at any time now, etc. etc- He’s a troll. It’s obvious. Let’s let this thread die, and not answer any others he posts. Insert witty insult to thread founder here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tiny-anomalies-artifacts-found-on-the-ground-in-apollo-photos/76835.md?page=5)