# Tip-toeing Trepidaciously into the Whedonverse (starting with Firefly) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 10, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817 "2014-04-10T19:45:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/21 "2014-04-23T18:07:58Z")
“Could we maybe vote on the whole murdering people thing?” Yes, Wash is great and Alan Tudyk is great. There’s very little that I have seen him in before watching this. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/22 "2014-04-23T18:29:18Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > I’m going to watch _Serenity_ (the movie) after work tonight. Please post tomorrow and let us know your reaction. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/23 "2014-04-23T18:30:10Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > “Could we maybe vote on the whole murdering people thing?” > > Yes, Wash is great and Alan Tudyk is great. There’s very little that I have seen him in before watching this. you must now go and rent/watch “Tucker and Dale vs Evil”. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/24 "2014-04-23T18:49:58Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > If you gave the show four episodes I’d say you gave it a fair shake. It’s okay not to like Buffy. Just throwing this out there: the second season is substantially better than the first season. A lot of fans did not like the first season but absolutely adored everything after. > [@bienville](#): > > Well, I’ve worked my way through the series- I really like it! I watched the whole series twice in the past two weeks. You like it! Yay! _claps hands like a seal_ Do you have a favorite episode? And make sure you don’t skip Joss Whedon’s commentary for “Objects in Space.” It’s really good. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/25 "2014-04-23T19:28:29Z")
> [@simster](#): > > you must now go and rent/watch > > “Tucker and Dale vs Evil”. Yes! Especially since you liked _Cabin in the Woods_ so much. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/26 "2014-04-23T19:30:51Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > And make sure you don’t skip Joss Whedon’s commentary for “Objects in Space.” It’s really good. I’m definitely interested in the commentary tracks, but decided I won’t listen to them until after watching the movie- just in case the commentary assumes knowledge of the movie, I don’t want anything spoiled. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/27 "2014-04-23T19:34:40Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > If you gave the show four episodes I’d say you gave it a fair shake. It’s okay not to like Buffy. As Lakai said, if you gave the show four episodes _of the second season_, you gave it a fair shake. When I watched the series, I watched seasons 2-7 in order, and only then went back and watched season 1. Although, truth be told, season 1 does have a couple of decent episodes, including “Angel” and “Prophecy Girl”. The first really outstanding episode is “School Hard”, the third episode of the second season. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/28 "2014-04-23T19:50:23Z")
Myself, I hated _ **Firefly** _, although I liked the film _ **Serenity** _ (series or films about outer space , but which lack aliens have never held my interest for long. Red Dwarf being an exception although its “aliens” were descendants from Earth). The show was simply too pretentious for its own good and it was never going to find an audience large enough to make it viable. I also recommend _ **Cabin in the Woods** _ as it was a well-told story and included the as always excellent Richard Jenkins. \*\*\*Angel \*\*\*wasn’t too bad although removing Charisma Carpenter and replacing her with Amy Acker was probably its worst decision. It was getting all but one number in teh lottery. Yeah…you won. But you didn’t win big… _ **Buffy** _ is a mixed bag for me. The episode dealing her mother was excellent. But the series probably dragged on a season too long and it should have wrapped up a little more neatly than it did. I hate Dollhouse from GO. I like Eliza Dushku but I thought that it was a another series in search of an audience. Whedon is a mixed bag,OP. Some of his stuff is great. Some it is terrible. But I guess that you’ll see that for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/29 "2014-04-23T20:04:36Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > \*\*\*Angel \*\*\*wasn’t too bad although removing Charisma Carpenter and replacing her with Amy Acker was probably its worst decision. It wasn’t the show runner’s decision to replace Charisma Carpenter - she left acting for a couple of years to start a family. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/30 "2014-04-23T20:26:00Z")
The more of Joss Whedon’s work I see, the more I’m convinced that Firefly has benefited from its cancellation. For example, I didn’t realize until this thread that Whedon was associated with Alien:Resurrection. That movie… it just… God-awful terrible. I suppose there are certain moments of banter that are enjoyable in what was otherwise a franchise-destroying train wreck, and I suppose the faithful will blame Fox for anything that did go wrong. Buffy is also God-awful terrible for the original movie and for about two seasons, when it graduates to being OK. Angel is also in the OK category. When those shows were doing well, they’re a little like House: I would watch for the clever one-liners, not because I really like anything else about it. (In fact, until this thread, I didn’t realize that the original Buffy movie was written by Whedon. But, yeah, _bad_.) The writing he’s done for X Men and The Avengers is solid. Titan AE was intended for a younger audience than me, but was decent. Cabin in the Woods had moments of brilliance and a great overall concept, but there was a lot of boring procedural stuff to wade through in order to find the gems (it reminds me of my thoughts about Outer Limits: “It’s Twilight Zone… only longer!”). I haven’t seen Dollhouse yet, but even among Whedon fans, it’s not held up as his best. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/31 "2014-04-23T20:31:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It wasn’t the show runner’s decision to replace Charisma Carpenter - she left acting for a couple of years to start a family. Acker came aboard two whole seasons before Carpenter left. She was in no way, shape or form a “replacement”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/32 "2014-04-23T20:37:17Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Acker came aboard two whole seasons before Carpenter left. She was in no way, shape or form a “replacement”. Yes, that also. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/33 "2014-04-23T21:12:59Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > For example, I didn’t realize until this thread that Whedon was associated with Alien:Resurrection. That movie… it just… God-awful terrible. I suppose there are certain moments of banter that are enjoyable in what was otherwise a franchise-destroying train wreck, and I suppose the faithful will blame Fox for anything that did go wrong. I mostly blame Jean-Pierre Jeunet for that, as he was the director, although some blame attaches to Fox for thinking he was a good fit for the franchise. I don’t generally blame the writers when a movie turns out shitty, unless they were also the director or producer. Writers in Hollywood generally have very little power over their scripts once they’ve been sold, and even less when they’ve been brought in to work an existing property, like the Alien franchise. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/34 "2014-04-24T00:04:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I mostly blame Jean-Pierre Jeunet for that, as he was the director, although some blame attaches to Fox for thinking he was a good fit for the franchise. I don’t generally blame the writers when a movie turns out shitty, unless they were also the director or producer. Writers in Hollywood generally have very little power over their scripts once they’ve been sold, and even less when they’ve been brought in to work an existing property, like the Alien franchise. In my opinion, it goes back farther than that. The “Resurrection” in the title applies to the franchise as much as the plot. When the project started, they were handed the moldering corpse of a franchise that had been shot in the head by the previous movie. I don’t think it would have mattered who you put in charge, or how much control you gave to which writer, short of allowing a complete reboot. The best anyone could hope to do under the circumstances was hook some wires to the body and make it jiggle around a bit. Not to say they didn’t screw up even that part, but really, how much worse is a _bad_ corpse dance? ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/35 "2014-04-24T00:15:31Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > I’m going to watch _Serenity_ (the movie) after work tonight. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > That should be _interesting_. > [@StGermain](#): > > Did you like Wash? > [@Skammer](#): > > Please post tomorrow and let us know your reaction. The suspense is killing me. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/36 "2014-04-24T03:29:31Z")
I’ve loved Firefly from the first episode. It’s fantastic television. The characters all work together so well to create something really entertaining. It’s a classic. Dr. Horrible is just awesome. If you haven’t seen it yet, you must. Dollhouse was intriguing. I enjoyed quite a bit of it, but some of it does fall flat. I could not get into Buffy. I really tried. It was ok and I didn’t turn it off when it was on, but it didn’t hold my interest. I found myself getting up to do stuff without bothering to pause the DVD. That’s pretty much the sign that I need to stop trying. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/37 "2014-04-24T03:44:38Z")
Don’t forget to put _Toy Story_ in the queue. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/38 "2014-04-24T05:30:00Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Please post tomorrow and let us know your reaction. So, I watched the entire series wondering to myself “O.K., when am I going to see this ‘Joss always kills a fan favorite’ schtick?” . . . Time for bed. I’ll post more thoughts in the morning for anyone who’s interested. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/39 "2014-04-24T12:12:34Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > The suspense is killing me. Suspended like a leaf on the wind? > [@bienville](#): > > Time for bed. I’ll post more thoughts in the morning for anyone who’s interested. Subscribing to thread 😃 ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817/40 "2014-04-24T12:19:49Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Acker came aboard two whole seasons before Carpenter left. She was in no way, shape or form a “replacement”. A season and a half. Fred came on late in the second season and Carpenter left in the middle of the fourth. Also, after Acker’s arrival,Carpenter’s screen time decreased as the narrative promoted Fred over her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tip-toeing-trepidaciously-into-the-whedonverse-starting-with-firefly/685817.md?page=3)