The forums I frequent seem to accept it as truth that Whedon fired Carpenter for being pregnant, so the feminists really shouldn’t be hero worshipping him the way we do.
But then, they’ve never forgiven him for Tara 
Me too.
Just watch out for the DVD menu though - the arrangement of the episodes on the DVD menu is haphazard enough that it resulted in both me and the first person I lent the box set to, watching the episodes in the wrong order.
ETA: should have read the thread - too late…
I don’t think Buffy holds up terribly well anymore. When it came out, the standard for television fantasy was Hercules: The Legendary Journies. From that baseline, it was astounding. If you’re used to things like the Battlestar: Galactica reboot, or Game of Thrones, then it’s going to seem hokey as fuck. But it was Buffy that paved the way for fantasy and sci-fi shows that featured genuine character growth, season-long (or longer) story arcs, and engaging human drama.
O.K., at this point can I assume that everyone reading this Thread has seen both the series and the movie?
Well, I am going to assume that, so if you haven’t seen both: know that I’m not boxing Spoilers.
That said . . .
I liked the movie a lot. First of all, I was impressed with how well the first 10 minutes set everything up for anyone who watched the movie having never seen the series.
Of course, to do that, there was a bit of retconning: Simon basically knew everything about River from all the way back when he first rescued her. In the T.V. show he was learning bit by bit: and he had very little information to go on until the “Ariel” episode. Most of his actions (and/or inaction) on the T.V. series make no sense if he had all the knowledge at the very beginning. This bothered me a little at first "If he already knew all that then why . . . " but then I just shut myself up with the explanation that it was a retcon.
It did feel a little bit more like a really good episode of a T.V. show rather than a feature film. Also, it felt a little bit too much like we were running down a checklist of all the things Whedon wanted to wrap up from the T.V. series that cancellation denied him the opportunity to address. But, over all, I liked it.
I liked the reveal that Reavers had inadvertently been created by the Alliance. I liked how we saw just what kind of crimes the Alliance were capable of. We see the evil inherent in the system, Independents like Mal and Zoe are less easily painted as crazy “Freeman on the Land” anti-Gub’mint types.
Mal did seem a but overcrazed compared to the series. Call me Ishmael, but I did think he was going a bit Captain Ahab at a few points.
I was a bit sad to see Shepherd Book die, but it was clear that Whedon was never going to get to tell whatever the Shepherd Book story arc was that he had in mind when he launched the series.
O.K., Wash . . .
I don’t mind that Wash got killed, but it was just so glossed over. Yes, Zoe is a warrior and there was still an immediate threat: I would expect her to push it all down- the horror and sorrow and loss. But I wanted to see her push it all down. I wanted to see that it took all of her strength and will to be able to push it all down and focus on the immediate threat. All we got was a brief moment of denial as she tried to talk him out of his seat. Mal pulls her to the floor as additional projectiles come through the window, and then she’s up and off an on her way. Again, I believe she could push it all down . . . but I wanted to see her fight to push it all down.
And if he’s not appropriately grieved in the moment, I’d want him appropriately grieved in the aftermath- rather than sharing in joint funeral with Shepherd Book and Mr. Universe. And Zoe puts on a dress for the first time that we’ve ever seen: that’s the indication that she is truly bereaved?
But, over all, I was happy with both the series and the movie. Shiny.
The backstory of Shepherd Book is told in the canon comics. It would have been interesting to see how that would have played out on the show.
Shepherd Book’s tale was continued in the graphic novel, although some were not happy with it.
Glad to see you liked Firefly. I adored it from the start, and when the bad guy was sucked into the engine, I became a fan.
Now, I’m watching “Castle” on DVD. I was weaned on TV cop/detective shows, but I’m surprised how much I’m enjoying it. Maybe because I don’t have to watch the @#$@# commercials.
I have a hard time buying that. Dark Horse produced reams of comic book material that’s just begging to made into movies.
I’m one of the rare ones who saw *Serenity *the movie before any of the TV episodes. I had no trouble at all following it, although when I did finally watch the series I was mildly surprised to discover that Mr Universe was not one of the regular characters, and Shepard Book was. Somehow, the movie gave me the opposite impression.
*Castle *is one of my three must-see programs on current television (the other two being The Big Bang Theory and Person of Interest, although Orphan Black is thisclose to getting on the list). Don’t miss the extra in the first season DVD set where Stephen Cannell shows Nathan Fillion what the life of a mystery writer is like. That was very funny – especially the ending.
Which would never have been used in the Resurrection slot, because it didn’t fit the studio’s parameters (which amounted to “more Ripley versus xenomorphs”, because that’s what they made money on before). The reboot option I noted as an exception would be a case where they shifted to a separate set of encounters with the aliens, for which the Dark Horse material would have been a good starting point.
Yes! This was one of the first commentary tracks I ever listened to, and for awhile after that I kept listening to other commentary tracks hoping they’d be anywhere near as interesting, but usually they’re just the actors and/or directors popping a beer and shooting the shit. Objects In Space is totally fascinating, if you’re willing to put up with a lot of pretension, and I totally am.
Yeah, I just signed up for Netflix about 6 weeks ago. I decided to use the opportunity to check out Dollhouse. I finished Season 1 a few days ago and I really liked it! I’m about to start Season 2 after I finish this post.
I really like it a lot. I had no idea what the premise was before I started watching. I had a vague (mistaken) idea that it was kind of a more hip edgy 21st Century Charlie’s Angels kind of a thing- so I had LOW expectations!
Turns out, I loved the premise. I thought the whole first season was really cool!
I would say that I like it almost as much as Firefly. I think Dollhouse gets more points for the premise, but Firefly has one of the best ensemble casts in all of television, so that makes it nearly untouchable.
I never really liked the FBI agent. I don’t know if I had a problem with the character, or the actor, or maybe (since the whole world-building of the Dollhouse was such an intricate task) the writers never got a chance to really develop the character properly. He seemed like an afterthought much of the time.
I’ve always loved Olivia Williams and there’s an episode that features probably my favorite of any performance she’s ever given (when her character and Topher accidentally expose themselves to a drug they were trying to study: her performance being high was a thing of beauty and now I want to see her in more goofy silly roles!).
This series has definitely increased my appreciation for Amy Acker.
I notice now that the Wiki page lists her character as Whiskey. I am SO glad I did not read that first (and it served as a good warning for me to not read anymore for fear of spoilers for Season 2!)!
The reveal that she was a Doll was very well done. I didn’t guess it beforehand and it made perfect sense in hindsight: the absolute best way for a reveal to come across!
I don’t think Dushku is phenomenal in the role, but I think she is far more than adequate. And, yes, it is a demanding role- Dichen Lachman has a similarly demanding role as Sierra, and I do think she’s phenomenal in it (although, it’s not a completely even comparison- Lachman isn’t featured as much in “doll mode”, and Dushku’s very slowly increasing awareness in doll mode was a tricky thing to pull off and I think Dushku did it well).
Good to hear. I’m about to start Season 2 now. I think it would have been very frustrating if they hadn’t had an opportunity to really properly wrap it up.
After reading the thread, which I missed the first time around, add me to list of people that say if you want to give Buffy a try, start with season 2.
Season 1 was only 12 episodes long and I don’t know what the budget was, but the look of those episodes makes me think the entire 12-episode season had the same budget that each individual episode from later seasons got. The writing and acting were also subpar compared to later seasons, though not quite as subpar as the production values.
Starting in season 2, it became a real show with a real budget. Still not anything spectacular like Game of Thrones, mind you; just “real network tv show” level. Season 1 was like a student film.
O.K., I just watched Season 2 Episode 2 “Instinct” …
The one when she’s programmed to be a mother of a newborn baby… and her performance is excellent in this episode. It’s got me pretty excited about the rest of Season 2.
Is that the one where he’s Topher? Because that was unreal. I was expecting the other actor when suddenly, doll-time! I was thinking it’d be fun to see him in some spy/Quantum Leap-type thing. Maybe one day.
YES!!!
I just watched this one. I had read these comments ahead of time (without peeking under the Spoiler tag). He had shown other great acting on the show so I thought I had some idea what I was in for, but this was beautiful!!! Absolutely amazing!
Dollhouse is the only Whedon show I’ve ever given up on, and it was entirely due to Dushku. The show has a great cast except for her: as an actress, she’s got such distinctive mannerisms and expressions that I never could buy the idea of her as a blank slate. The other dolls, IMO, performed their roles much better.
It’s not to say that Dushku is a bad actor; plenty of great actors are highly distinctive in their mannerisms. I just think she was terribly miscast.
She does get a little better as the series goes on (probably helped by the fact that the Echo character develops more of a personality rather than being a blank-slate). But even at the end she’s pretty meh. Whedon’s propensity to draw from the same stable of (often not particularly great) actors really kind of bit him in the ass with Dollhouse.
Still, I think it was the best of the bunch of high-concept, near future sci-fi shows that came out in the 'oughts. And as others said, it had some great acting outside the lead. So worth your time if your looking for something to binge-watch.
Nobody’s brought it up yet, but you should check out Joss’s Much Ado About Nothing. Chock full of Whedon regulars and lots of fun.