# Tipping in America: the insult tip **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226 "2017-08-20T23:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Maurie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Maurie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maurie)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/81 "2017-08-21T15:48:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > As for milk in tea, not only is this not a common and accepted thing in the United States or elsewhere in North America I don’t think that’s true at all. I’m with **Leaffan** on this - I’m surprised to learn that’s weird in the US… it’s absolutely standard for tea to come with milk (or at least be offered) in 100% of the Canadian restaurants I’ve been in. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/82 "2017-08-21T15:51:47Z")
I keep reading this thread and wondering if the egg was poached to soft boiled. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/83 "2017-08-21T15:53:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > As for milk in tea, not only is this not a common and accepted thing in the United States or elsewhere in North America, but that would be easily remediated by, again, making the request of the server for the appropriate grade of milk which is almost certainly in stock in the kitchen. > > Stranger > [@Maurie](#): > > I don’t think that’s true at all. I’m with **Leaffan** on this - I’m surprised to learn that’s weird in the US… it’s absolutely standard for tea to come with milk (or at least be offered) in 100% of the Canadian restaurants I’ve been in. Stranger’s comments go too far. It is completely “accepted”. It’s just not the default. I’ve had milk offered to me and no one looks at me strange when I ask for it. With coffee it’s always offered or brought as a default- I have to explicitly say I prefer my coffee balck. With tea it is sometimes offered or brought, but it is not generally the default. However, it is not seen as weird when i ask for it (at least in my experience). It’s a small cultural difference. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/84 "2017-08-21T15:59:20Z")
Huh, I don’t think I’ve ever eaten somewhere that brought milk automatically with coffee, much less tea. If it’s too classy to have little cups of creamer on the table a la Perkins, they ask if I want cream when I order the coffee and that’s the time to request milk. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/85 "2017-08-21T16:02:32Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Huh, I don’t think I’ve ever eaten somewhere that brought milk automatically with coffee, much less tea. If it’s too classy to have little cups of creamer on the table a la Perkins, they ask if I want cream when I order the coffee and that’s the time to request milk. Most diners or mid-range places I’ve been at bring the little dish of creamers (which my kids always stacked into pyramids and towers 🙂 ). Higher end restaurants almost always ask if I want cream for my coffee, but only rarely ask if I want milk when I ask for tea. They don’t blink if I request it though. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/86 "2017-08-21T16:05:55Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > But they don’t- they get a tip that is a percentage of the meal. If the food is great they get their usual tip. If the service is great, they get more. So you are saying the quality of the food has nothing to do with what tip you leave? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/87 "2017-08-21T16:10:27Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Most diners or mid-range places I’ve been at bring the little dish of creamers (which my kids always stacked into pyramids and towers 🙂 ). Higher end restaurants almost always ask if I want cream for my coffee, but only rarely ask if I want milk when I ask for tea. They don’t blink if I request it though. The things I learn here… I, in fact, drink my tea and coffee black, but the 100% default here in Canada is to make sure milk (or cream) is served with both coffee and tea. I just cannot imagine why it would not be the default everywhere! Yes, different cultures, etc. But I had no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/88 "2017-08-21T16:10:30Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m a little confused, but perhaps you explained in an earlier post. Are you saying when in the USA you tip, but that you prefer other places where there isn’t a tipping culture? Exactly so. I don’t like eating out by myself anyway so I tend to buy take away or browse the supermarkets. Or I order room service and without exception a surcharge is already added as part of the costs so no need for any other tipping. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/89 "2017-08-21T16:12:41Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So you are saying the quality of the food has nothing to do with what tip you leave? That’s correct. How the server reacts if I report poor quality food impacts the tip. But a fantastic meal doesn’t earn the server a big tip unless they were instrumental in the experience (recommendations, wine pairings, etc). After a great meal I may be more inclined to be generous, but that can be achieved by several glasses of wine as well. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/90 "2017-08-21T16:20:54Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Obviously, it’s a crazy system, (“we’ll supply the food, but you pay for the help”) but its what we have. Refusing to tip is equivalent to telling the server that you expect them to wait on your for free. While there may be rare occasions where that is appropriate (very rare), I’ve never done it. What’s the difference between fast food & a sit-down restaurant? You walk in, peruse the menu, someone takes your order & then delivers your food & you eat. In one you do everything seated while the other you carry your tray to your seat. I’ve never seen someone tip in McDonald’s. I think it’s totally ridiculous that we should pay people extra to do their jobs, whether it’s waiter/ess, bartender, taxi driver, bellhop, or other. Unfortunately it’s part of the culture in the US & therefore I do it, because otherwise I’m just stiffing a working schlub but that doesn’t mean I like it. I’d much rather pay more base & not have to add any extras on. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/91 "2017-08-21T16:22:41Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So you are saying the quality of the food has nothing to do with what tip you leave? Of course not- only yes in the sense that higher quality restaurants are generally more expensive, so I leave bigger tips (since the total bill is higher). If the food was awful, and I said something to the server, and they did nothing about it, then I’d dock the tip for poor service. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/92 "2017-08-21T16:23:38Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > What’s the difference between fast food & a sit-down restaurant? You walk in, peruse the menu, someone takes your order & then delivers your food & you eat. In one you do everything seated while the other you carry your tray to your seat. I’ve never seen someone tip in McDonald’s. > > I think it’s totally ridiculous that we should pay people extra to do their jobs, whether it’s waiter/ess, bartender, taxi driver, bellhop, or other. Unfortunately it’s part of the culture in the US & therefore I do it, because otherwise I’m just stiffing a working schlub but that doesn’t mean I like it. I’d much rather pay more base & not have to add any extras on. The difference is McDonalds employees are paid by the restaurant. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/93 "2017-08-21T16:24:06Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > The things I learn here… I, in fact, drink my tea and coffee black, but the 100% default here in Canada is to make sure milk (or cream) is served with both coffee and tea. **I just cannot imagine why it would not be the default everywhere!** > > Yes, different cultures, etc. But I had no idea. Really? Yes, sometimes we do things a different here in the states, and it’s really ok. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/94 "2017-08-21T16:25:34Z")
I can’t imagine tipping more for a better meal. I recently went to a couple Michelin-star quality restaurants. Does anyone expect me to tip 30% because the food is amazing? ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/95 "2017-08-21T16:25:47Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > No, what people are saying is if the meal was shit, it’s not the server’s fault. Lodge your complaint with the manager or the chef, and don’t make a passive-aggressive statement with your pittance of a tip. My usual tip is 18%-20% post-tax. Over the last 25 years, I’ve left a $0 tip exactly twice. The last time this happened was at a mall restaurant - a pricey casual kind of place with $15-$25 entrees - I had ordered roast chicken and my wife had ordered a stir fry with tofu. When we received the food, the waiter dropped it on the table and walked off. My wife examined the food and discovered the tofu was left off. Upon calling the waiter over and explaining the situation, he opined that my wife had probably eaten the tofu and then called him over to complain. When my wife expressed indignation and surprise, the server said this happened all the time with customers wanting stuff for free. A brief chat with the manager resulted in the dish being comped, but there was no chance a waiter who was a complete dick was getting a tip. The food may have been the issue but it was entirely the way that the waiter handled that pissed us off. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/96 "2017-08-21T16:31:21Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > What’s the difference between fast food & a sit-down restaurant? “Personal” service. At McDonald’s, you walk in, you walk to the counter, you give them your order, you stand there and wait for your food, then you’re entirely on your own. You want a napkin? Ketchup? More to drink? “They’re all over there.” _You_ go to _them_. At a sit down restaurant, you sit, and _they_ come to _you_. You want a napkin? Ketchup? More to drink? “I’ll bring that right out.” ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/97 "2017-08-21T16:35:01Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think tipping is an outmoded, snobbish, master and servant power-play. One-upmanship that gives employers incentives to screw over their workers. I agree with this completely. It’s also incredibly unfair on kitchen staff, who in many restaurants ending up earning far less than wait staff despite having more training and more skills, because they don’t share in the tips. I’d be happy for tipping to be eliminated altogether. But i also understand that, whether i like it or not, it’s currently part of the way things work in the United States, and if i fail to tip, all i’m doing is screwing over a hard-working, minimum wage employee. Which would make me an asshole. [There’s an interesting [Freakonomics episode](http://freakonomics.com/podcast/danny-meyer/) on the efforts of restaurateur Danny Meyer to eliminate tipping at his high-end New York eatery] ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/98 "2017-08-21T16:37:49Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Really? Yes, sometimes we do things a different here in the states, and it’s really ok. Sure but milk with tea is so universal I had no idea it wasn’t the default everywhere. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/99 "2017-08-21T16:40:58Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Sure but milk with tea is so universal I had no idea it wasn’t the default everywhere. That’s all. That’s my point- it’s not so universal. In your experience it may be, but that’s because you’re missing experiences with the places it is not. That’s true for everyone- people just have to be careful to not get stuck in the mind set that one person’s universal experience is _the universal experience_. Ideally, the response to finding it out should be “wow, that’s interesting” and not “that’s weird, what’s wrong with them”. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/100 "2017-08-21T16:41:06Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Here’s some advice for tip haters: We get it. You are morally opposed to tipping. Bully for you. What you need to know is you are a sliver thin minority and the impact of your ‘stand’, in stiffing/undertipping the server, has zero real effect. It’s a numbers game, and you’re not making much difference over all. And no one, who feels tipping is appropriate, is ever going to be swayed by your campaign to change this. > > All that’s happening when you expound on the topic, in threads, restaurants or groups of friends, is you’re revealing something, that most of your audience is going to think, (no matter how righteous you feel _your_ stance is), reflects somewhat unattractively on you. > > Tip or don’t tip, no ones really gonna care in the big picture. But when you proudly announce such a thing, all those around you hear is that you’re cheap. Resist the urge to reveal this, is my advice. Literally no one but you cares. And you’re just making yourself look bad. Don’t tip of you like, but at least have the sense to not announce your boorishness. I assure you, those politely listening to you are embarrassed for you. In part because you don’t tip, but mostly because you’re not swift enough to do so with any discretion. > > Don’t tip if you like, but spare everyone the embarrassment of having to listen to you go on about it. It’s really not something you should ever boast on. I’m not trying to change your view, please understand. Please continue to not tip if that’s how you strongly feel. > > Not unlike persons proudly stating, 'Yeah, I don’t read.", I’m not gonna bother trying to change your mind, but I would offer you the advice that you might want to keep that to yourself, as announcing it reflects very badly on you. Not on books. If literally no one but the the people who think tipping is dumb as hell care why the vitriol seen in this thread? People are even getting basically a pass on language directed at the op as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226.md?page=6)