# Tipping in America: the insult tip **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226 "2017-08-20T23:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/161 "2017-08-23T00:08:22Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > My evidence is from the U.S. Department of Labor. Others are posting anecdotes. Which one do you think meets a higher standard of evidence? When it comes to this sort of thing, definitely anecdotes. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/162 "2017-08-23T00:51:54Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Not true. In the U.S., all employees must be paid the federal or state minimum wage, whichever is higher. > [@mhendo](#): > > The problem is that **D’Anconia** is right. Federal law requires that, one way or another, all workers, including tipped workers, be paid at least the federal minimum wage. > … > Employers are absolutely required, by federal law, to ensure that their employees, including tipped employees, receive at least the federal minimum wage for the work they do. And if tipped employees are paid $2.13 per hour, and their tips do not bring them up to $7.25, the employer is absolutely required to make up the difference. That’s why I mentioned the passive voice. If we put the agent in **D’Anconia’s** sentence to make it accurate, it needs to say, “In the U.S., all employees must be paid the federal or state minimum wage, whichever is higher, BY A COMBINATION OF THEIR CUSTOMERS AND THEIR EMPLOYERS.” Then, yes, it’s true. Problem is, when we’re talking about employees being paid wages, it’s almost universally understood that the agent is “employer.” **D’Anconia** may intend this agent, but by leaving it unclear, he strongly implies that something false is true. > [@](#): > > Arguing that D’Anconia is wrong here is like arguing that robbery or sexual assault are allowed in America, just because some people ignore the laws against robbery and sexual assault. Setting aside the issues inherent in the agentless passive voice, if the law is truly unenforced (something I don’t have a position on), it’s categorically different from laws against robbery and sexual assault, which are enforced. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/163 "2017-08-23T00:57:06Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I would suggest that if there is a next time, send the food back, ask for the check for the tea, and leave. I was hungry and did not have much time before my coach left thanks to the lateness of the meal. > [@](#): > > Either that or ask for the manager and show him what you are unhappy about, then leave. The server is an underpaid and overworked minion who has no control over the kitchen. As I said, I was short on time. I had complained to the wait staff already. As was, I had about 10 mins after I finished before they started loading the coach. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/164 "2017-08-23T01:01:09Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > He paid his bill without letting the management or server know of his disatisfaction That is not correct. The server knew my dissatisfaction. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/165 "2017-08-23T01:05:59Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I was hungry and did not have much time before my coach left thanks to the lateness of the meal. > > As I said, I was short on time. I had complained to the wait staff already. As was, I had about 10 mins after I finished before they started loading the coach. Ok, so let’s say all this happened in your home town, where tipping is not practiced. What would you have done in these circumstances? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/166 "2017-08-23T01:06:06Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Waiters and waitresses make a great deal more money than people who actually work for minimum wage or a little above it. Do you also seek out the cooks and other back-end workers at restaurants? They probably make minimum wage. What about store clerks? They are waiting on you and almost certainly make less than waiters. Do you leave a tip each week for your trash hauler? What about the lifeguard who’s watching your kid at the pool? For that matter, what about the people watching your kids at day care? There is a good chance they are making less than the servers you go out of your way to generously tip. Median hourly wage for the following occupations, according to the [Bureau of Labor Statistics](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm): Waiters and Waitresses: $9.61 Cooks, Restaurant: $11.61 Retail Sales Workers: $10.37 Refuse and Recyclable Material Collectors: $16.95 Lifeguards, Ski Patrol, and Other Recreational Protective Service Workers: $9.76 Childcare Workers: $10.18 ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/167 "2017-08-23T01:12:01Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > That is not correct. The server knew my dissatisfaction. In a case like that, just tip the 15% and be done with it. Forget about it and focus on enjoying what you came to the United States to see. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/168 "2017-08-23T01:26:32Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Median hourly wage for the following occupations, according to the [Bureau of Labor Statistics](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm): > > Waiters and Waitresses: $9.61 > Cooks, Restaurant: $11.61 > Retail Sales Workers: $10.37 > Refuse and Recyclable Material Collectors: $16.95 > Lifeguards, Ski Patrol, and Other Recreational Protective Service Workers: $9.76 > Childcare Workers: $10.18 And which of those has the most unreported, tax-free income? One study indicates that $11 billion is likely not reported from just credit card tips. That ignores all cash tips. Based on the number of waiters in the country, unreported tips likely total $3.00 to $6.00 per hour per server. Not only is that additional income, it is tax free. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/169 "2017-08-23T01:31:51Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > And which of those has the most unreported, tax-free income? > One study indicates that $11 billion is likely not reported from just credit card tips. That ignores all cash tips. Based on the number of waiters in the country, unreported tips likely total $3.00 to $6.00 per hour per server. Not only is that additional income, it is tax free. If it’s unreported, how can you come up with a number? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/170 "2017-08-23T01:38:39Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > If it’s unreported, how can you come up with a number? The unreported credit card tips were estimated by Square and the IRS. The IRS separately reported that they believe that only 40 percent of tips are reported and taxed. I would like to hear from servers whether they think the 40 percent figure seems reasonable. As an outsider, it doesn’t seem unbelievable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/171 "2017-08-23T01:53:38Z")
Forgive me if I’ve missed this in my skimming the thread; but since most places that have (for example) bussers and bar staff are tipped to out of the server’s tips, is the minimum wage guaranteed after they’ve done so? It’s different at each restaurant, be it 10-50% of each server’s tips per shift. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/172 "2017-08-23T01:58:59Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > And which of those has the most unreported, tax-free income? > One study indicates that $11 billion is likely not reported from just credit card tips. That ignores all cash tips. Based on the number of waiters in the country, unreported tips likely total $3.00 to $6.00 per hour per server. Not only is that additional income, it is tax free. FWIW, one of my reasons for supporting the abolition of tipping is precisely that it makes tax avoidance so easy. No-one really likes paying taxes, but they’re the price of a civilized society, and everyone should pay their fair share. If a waiter manages to achieve a gross income of $50,000 or $100,000, or whatever, then he or she should have the same tax burden as a schoolteacher or police officer or office working making $50,000 or $100,000. But that rarely happens, because so much tipped income goes unreported. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/173 "2017-08-23T02:02:32Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > If it’s unreported, how can you come up with a number? Come on, no need to be obtuse just for the sake of it. Economists and other academic researchers have plenty of ways of making reasonably accurate determinations about things like this. Of course, they can never be completely certain, but they can control for a lot of factors, and most such studies outline the assumptions and the methodology that informs their work in order to make clear how confident they are about their calculations. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/174 "2017-08-23T02:02:36Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I was hungry and did not have much time before my coach left thanks to the lateness of the meal. Now I have [this image](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iHYUVaOLf7U/maxresdefault.jpg) of **Quartz** departing in his coach, glorying in his revenge but still craving a cheeseburger and hot tea (with milk). ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Pippers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b5a626/32.png) [@Pippers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pippers)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/175 "2017-08-23T02:22:36Z")
Somewhere up thread it was posted that the waitress should have noticed the food was improperly cooked. Really? How were they supposed to see inside the eggs? If I order a steak as 'medium ', other than the little plastic stick in it that says medium, how would the wait staff know how done it is? I’m filing that under “crazy talk”. As to the op. Wow dude, just wow. Here’s a hint for next time - if you are in a hurry never, ever order eggs Benedict. They take quite some time to prepare and unless you’re at a high end brunch, they’ll most likely be less than mediocre (at least on the west coast). You’re better off with scrambled or over-easy. Ok? And one more thing, use your pie hole to ask the waiter/waitress for some milk. Stiffing that person because of your own inadequacies is not nice, not nice at all. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/176 "2017-08-23T03:22:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Now I have [this image](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iHYUVaOLf7U/maxresdefault.jpg) of **Quartz** departing in his coach, glorying in his revenge but still craving a cheeseburger and hot tea (with milk). ☹ I have an image of **Quartz** departing in one of [these](http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/e2defb16c2f54ed1bdc3333bf924ad02/horse-drawn-coach-in-antwerp-d5pg4k.jpg) rather than on a Greyhound. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/177 "2017-08-23T03:46:08Z")
Surely something more [like this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/French_Phaeton_carriage.JPG), for the nice skyward view. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/178 "2017-08-23T12:06:56Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Now I have [this image](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iHYUVaOLf7U/maxresdefault.jpg) of **Quartz** departing in his coach, glorying in his revenge but still craving a cheeseburger and hot tea (with milk). ☹ Glorying? Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![spjork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@spjork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spjork)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/179 "2017-08-23T13:27:27Z")
People who complain about having to tip should be made to work as a waiter/waitress for a month. They’ll soon change their tunes. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226/180 "2017-08-23T13:31:13Z")
It’s sort of weird that **Quartz** started several threads planning this major trip to see the eclipse, was clearly very excited by it, and has only managed to start a thread about being really rude to a waitress. **Quartz** , are you going to give us any kind of run-down of the real purpose of your trip? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-in-america-the-insult-tip/794226.md?page=10)