# Tipping makes very little sense to me. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 20, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328 "2003-08-20T00:00:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Freiheit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e8c25b/32.png) [@Freiheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freiheit)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/1 "2003-08-20T00:00:37Z")
Everybody’s mad about the tip jars that are now freakin’ _everywhere,_ but tipping in general doesn’t make sense to me. A waiter bring you your food and drinks, an extra ketchup, whatever, and you give him extra money. For doing his job. So he deserves decent pay? Then make his regular pay bigger (and increase food/whatever prices, I know.) Why do we need to split up his income in such a way? Maybe if you get _exceptional_ service, and if you put him through a lot, then you give him (truly) extra money. Why is tipping the custom? ---
**Author:** ![Necromancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ac91a4/32.png) [@Necromancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necromancer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/2 "2003-08-20T00:09:42Z")
Tipping is not the norm in Australia and I don’t know many people who do it here. I admit I often do reward the restaurant with a token tip if the food and service is excellent. It’s more out of appreciation and the fact I enjoyed myself, rather than thinking I must tip them because they don’t get payed enough. ---
**Author:** ![I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@I\_can\_t\_believe\_that\_s\_butter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_can_t_believe_that_s_butter)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/3 "2003-08-20T00:43:25Z")
I agree that the tip jars are becoming much too commonplace these days. As far as normal tipping, it makes a bit of sense as the wage for waitstaff is something like $2.13 USD, as opposed somewhat to the normal minimum wage of $5.15. I don’t mind tipping if I have the money. Just the same, I don’t expect to be scorned for the occasional low tip due to finances and such. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/4 "2003-08-20T00:47:00Z")
It’s not going to change any time soon, because the restaurants make a killing from this arrangment. They get cheap labor and the public foots the bill. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/5 "2003-08-20T00:55:16Z")
Social customs don’t have to make a lot of sense. Dosen’t mean that you can’t try and change things–customs do change–but they can’t be just **reasoned** out of existance. You might as well argue that Mother’s Day or engagement rings or champagne at New Year’s make no sense. Now, if you don’t like a custom, feel free to ignore it–I ignore all three of the ones I listed above–but you can’t deny that it has meaning for the majoriy of people, else it would have disappeared. The fact that you don’t share that sense of meaning dosen’t make it any less real. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/6 "2003-08-20T00:56:52Z")
I think most people don’t like it. But how on earth would one go about changing this? ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_ev](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@skeptic\_ev](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skeptic_ev)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/7 "2003-08-20T01:03:13Z")
Tipping (in the US) is a part of eating out. It’s a custom that is enforced by–well, custom. And if you think about it, **Freiheit** , it works out well for us, the diners. You, as an individual diner, are holding most of the waiter’s salary hostage, at least for the time he’s actually waiting on you. He knows this. This tends to inspire good service, most likely. (Disclaimer: everyone has bad or busy days, and some people–waitstaff included–are just asses.) Personally, I like a system that allows me to decide how much a service is worth to me. My rule of thumb is that if I can’t afford to tip, then I can’t afford to eat out. I don’t think it’s fair to make the waiter or waitress–who generally makes quite a bit less than I do–lose a part of _their_ pay because going out for Mexican isn’t in _my_ budget. (One option I’ve used when money is a bit tight is to pick up takeout.) ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/8 "2003-08-20T01:16:53Z")
At least it’s better than those countries that include service in the bill. Then you still give a buck or two back for a tip or something. What’s up with that? ---
**Author:** ![RealTronic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9dc877/32.png) [@RealTronic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealTronic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/9 "2003-08-20T03:01:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SmackFu \* > \*\*At least it’s better than those countries that include service in the bill. Then you still give a buck or two back for a tip or something. What’s up with that? \*\* I disagree. In those places, you are only expected to “round up” the value of the bill - not give insane amounts like 20% tip. I have already voiced my opinions about tipping in a different thread, but I’ll do it again. I think it’s STUPID. Of course, since it’s the norm in the States, you can’t really escape it without getting harassed and frowned upon, so of course even I have to tip when going there. (And of course, I don’t expect restaurant/bar personnel to actually make a living on their measly $2.13/hour, so the only way of solving it is raising that to a decent level) I much better like the system which is in most (I think) European countries, which is sort of what was described above in the quote. You round up the total a bit to decrease change, and you can give a little bit extra for outstanding service - but no way are you EXPECTED to give something. Of course, for me, the **absolute** best custom is the one that prevails in Singapore and Japan for example; NO TIPPING ALLOWED WHATSOEVER. I love that. Pay what it say and nothing else. No hard feelings from anyone. No second thoughts about the size of the tip etc. Wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/10 "2003-08-20T03:20:14Z")
Well, you say you don’t like tipping, yet you are happy when it is included in bills in Europe, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that tipping? Sure, it’s kind of a required tip that tells you the amount, but it is still above and beyond the cost of food, right? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/11 "2003-08-20T04:30:17Z")
Read “Nickel and Dimed–On (Not) Getting By In America”, by Barbara Ehrenreich. It may give you a different perspective. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/12 "2003-08-20T04:48:03Z")
> [@](#): > > _Chefguy_ > Read “Nickel and Dimed–On (Not) Getting By In America”, by Barbara Ehrenreich. It may give you a different perspective. What perspective will it give us? Tell me! ---
**Author:** ![RealTronic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9dc877/32.png) [@RealTronic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealTronic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/13 "2003-08-20T05:02:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bouv \* > \*\*Well, you say you don’t like tipping, yet you are happy when it is included in bills in Europe, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that tipping? Sure, it’s kind of a required tip that tells you the amount, but it is still above and beyond the cost of food, right? \*\* Sorry, I was a bit unclear perhaps. I guess I should have written “dislike less.” The only system I really **do** like is the no-tipping system I described in my earlier post. ---
**Author:** ![Freiheit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e8c25b/32.png) [@Freiheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freiheit)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/14 "2003-08-20T06:20:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chefguy \* > \*\*Read “Nickel and Dimed–On (Not) Getting By In America”, by Barbara Ehrenreich. It may give you a different perspective. \*\* I hope you weren’t being mean right there. If not, it might have been misinterpreted as mean. I have read the book, not in its entirety, unfortunately, but I think I got the general idea. I didn’t mean to say (did I say?) that waiters usw are overpaid, but I think that all of their income should be paid by the restaurant. About the same amount they would have made otherwise. Tipping complicates. And how is it possible/legal that anyone in a developed country is paid two-freaking-thirteen an hour?! You can live as a homeless person on uncooked ramen noodles at best on that! Even 5-something seems minimal to me, as an oregonian. ---
**Author:** ![Freiheit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e8c25b/32.png) [@Freiheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freiheit)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/15 "2003-08-20T06:27:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chefguy \* > \*\*Read “Nickel and Dimed–On (Not) Getting By In America”, by Barbara Ehrenreich. It may give you a different perspective. \*\* I hope you weren’t being mean right there. If not, it might have been misinterpreted as mean. I have read the book, not in its entirety, unfortunately, but I think I got the general idea. I didn’t mean to say (did I say?) that waiters usw are overpaid, but I think that all of their income should be paid by the restaurant. About the same amount they would have made otherwise. Tipping complicates. And how is it possible/legal that anyone in a developed country is paid two-freaking-thirteen an hour?! You can live as a homeless person on uncooked ramen noodles at best on that! Even 5-something seems minimal to me, as an oregonian. ---
**Author:** ![Freiheit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e8c25b/32.png) [@Freiheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freiheit)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/16 "2003-08-20T06:30:50Z")
Aaah, crap. My first doublepost. Forgive me, O Pissed-Off Hamsters. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/17 "2003-08-20T08:23:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny Bravo \* > \*\*It’s not going to change any time soon, because the restaurants make a killing from this arrangment. They get cheap labor and the public foots the bill. \*\* And therein lies the answer I think. I was horrified when I read in another thread (it was in the pit but I can’t find the link right now) that the IRS actually assume a certain amount of salary is made from a tip. For F’s sake, just pay the people what they’re worth!! ---
**Author:** ![Odinoneeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@Odinoneeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odinoneeye)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/18 "2003-08-20T09:32:16Z")
This dependence on tipping isn’t limited to waitstaff. Hair stylists are paid minimum wage and they have to go to school to learn their craft. They are also expected to make part of their living on tips. I always tipped them 20%, but I came to find out that the custom is more like 50%. (My wife’s cousin used to cut hair at Bo Rics). ---
**Author:** ![Nocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9fc348/32.png) [@Nocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nocturne)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/19 "2003-08-20T09:41:19Z")
My roommate quit a waitressing job this summer, at which she earned 2.13 an hour. Even worse, at this restaurant, she had to put her tips in a jar. After the night was done, the tips were split evenly among staff members. There were nights when she actually made about 20 in tips, but because the tips were split up, she would come home with about 7 dollars in her pocket. Her paychecks after about two weeks’ work were less than 50 dollars. She was making about 100 a month, give or take, while paying four times that, almost, in rent and utilities. Not to mention the cost of gas money, groceries, etc. The US dining experience (and working experience in dining industry) sucks, to say the very least. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328/20 "2003-08-20T10:43:47Z")
how do you tip when you pay by card? do you actually have to fork out loose change or something? do they hint or instruct you to tip or is it just expected? what happens when you don’t tip? 😕 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tipping-makes-very-little-sense-to-me/196328.md?page=2)