tipping: not for (white) Americans

Princhester

“Here’s another fact: no one here has said anything to the contrary. There are various lines of discussion going on here about tips, but precisely no one is denying it is customary to tip in the US. When people make points about tipping, your reaction is to provide no reasoning but just blindly assert irrelevancies. Like I said, not very convincing.”

**Seriously, all joking aside, you don’t know facetious when you see it, do you? That’s OK. You said I wasn’t providing any facts, and since this isn’t General Questions or Great Debates, and since I’m not trying to convince you of anything, I offered you a fact. I figured you already knew that, but wait…
**

“Before you say “Fact” so boldly, you might like to check who said what. Actually, I claimed nothing of the sort: that was njtt.”

**… here’s my problem. Fair enough, I lumped you both together. Pardon me. Allow me to rephrase that:
Among the several facts sprinkled about my previous posts are included such handy bits of trivia as, "Fact: It has been claimed in this thread that nervousness and anxiety often accompanies the act of tipping, especially figuring out the proper amount to tip. I have helpfully included a convenient, albeit brief, tutorial that illustrates a simple but effective method of determining the computations necessary to leave an appropriate gratuity.

**
“Sorry, I was toying with you when I pretended earlier to accept this explanation as correct. I’ve read post upon post upon explanation upon blog article by Americans which says “you should tip in the US because servers don’t get minimum wage and rely upon your tips to earn their basic living”. You can believe and be motivated as you like, but I doubt your opinion is even that of the majority of your countryfolk, let alone the definitive view.”

**While I’d be mildly interested in examining any cite that supports your views regarding my fellow tipsters, or even a cite that refers to any polls that might identify a definitive view on the subject, I think the heart of the matter is that tipping has become part of an interactive ecology in tipping cultures. The admittedly cheap or greedy restauranteur or bar owner see’s it in his best interest to offer the lowest wage he can. Sometimes, servers make a surprising salary, depending on the location and type of establishment, but I’ll grant that Capitalism operates in this case with the employer desiring to maximize profits and minimize overhead.

The server’s motivation for doing a great job is that, allowing for the occasional stiff (probably a foreign tourist, or grumpy immigrant), most of the time, extra effort is rewarded with extra gratuity. The server in essentially in business with the customer. The guest has grown to expect friendly and attentive service, and it’s in the server’s best interest to provide that, for a small fee that averages 20% if the tab. It’s an elegant solution to the problem of getting good help, because even when a waiter/waitress’s wages are at the top end of the scale, most really talented and experienced servers wouldn’t work for hourly wage alone, and dining/ drinking as a whole would suffer.

This relationship, between miserly employer, industrious server, and generous customer is one of mutual benefit. The boss gets affordable help, the worker makes enough to get by, and the guest enjoys a pleasant dining experience. I believe this interactivity between server and customer, the result being great service, is the motivation that perpetuates the tipping system. It just works well.

Like I said, please show me cites that support this: I doubt your opinion is even that of the majority of your countryfolk, let alone the definitive view.

If you find polls or studies that show a majority of my countryfolk (quaint) do not share my opinion, and facts that support a different definitive view, then you won’t just be making baseless assertions. **
"Firstly, you don’t show any signs at all of understanding the point people have been making regarding other countries. The point isn’t that the US should be like other countries. You’re just blindly asserting irrelevancies again. The point people have been making regarding other countries is that it is incorrect to say that US tipping practices are the only or best solution, because other countries don’t have US style tipping practices and they work just fine. In other words no one is saying the US shouldn’t have its tipping practices, they are saying overseas examples show the US doesn’t have to have its tipping practices. I’m sure you’re smart enough to understand this distinction if you try.

And your whole schtick about immigrants tripping over themselves to get to America so America must be exceptionally great is cute but ignorant. I don’t know if you’ve noticed (I’m guessing not) but pretty much every 1st world country has immigrants, particularly refugees, clamouring to get in. The whole of Western Europe, Canada, Australia. All of them. Get over yourself. And most of those countries don’t have US tipping practices.
[/QUOTE]

**I’m having some trouble finding where I said: “US tipping practices are the only or best solution”.
I’ll admit tipping is a workable and efficient solution that seems to tend to let hard workers derive immediate benefit from their efforts, and I don’t see the system as broken.

My mother was from France, so I was raised in two cultures. Being a musician, I’ve traveled quite a lot, and when I’ve been in Europe, I have to say, customer service is not one of their strong suites. The statement: “other countries don’t have US style tipping practices and they work just fine,” is an opinion, not a fact. I’ll tell you, they do manage to get the plate of food or the bottle of beer from th**e **kitchen to the table, but on average, the service I’ve become accustomed to here was not readily apparent to me when traveling overseas. There were exceptions, admittedly.

Here’s a cite that addresses your last bit of rudeness.**

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population_in_2005

What’s wrong with showing appreciation for a job well done by paying well for it?

OK. Chiming in from a Canadian perspective, where the tipping customs are the same, I like the tipping culture.

Wait staff are more inclined to go out of their way to ensure your dining experience is perfect, because they know that their tip will depend on it.

I really can’t imagine the service level in restaurants where no incentive is provided to the wait staff. I’ve experienced service where once my meal was served I never saw the waitress again: at all. I did not tip for that meal. It’s the only time I have never tipped. I initiated a thread here about it something like 6 or 7 years ago.

ETA: My kids wanted more juice. I wanted another beer. We had no salt or pepper on the table. No one came back to check on us. 0%. Fuck you.

(bolding mine)
Can’t say that I blame you, but personally, I would’ve asked to speak to the manager when it was time to pay the bill. It could have resulted in a reduced bill at the least, or having the entire meal ‘comped’, at best.

I was involved with a waitress for many years (who also worked as an asst. manager at other restaraunts) and learned from her to always speak to the management (calmly and rationally) about poor service.
The results were generally satisfying, after having done so. YMMV

I’m American, by the way.

So bad service gets “zero.”

What about mediocre service? Average service? Good service? Great service?

How much do you tip for each of those?

In reality, I suspect most people just tip the same regardless (currently around 20%) instead of spending time and brain power on it. It seems like that would result in waiters realizing their best bet is not to provide great service, but rather to serve as many people as possible (specifically, trying to serve more of those who look like stereotypically good tippers and spending less time on stereotypically poor tippers) even as service suffers.

It’s a stupid and possibly racist system, but I’m fine with it. When I go out I wear nice clothes and be white to look like a stereotypical good tipper (the only way I can try to improve service and not be ignored by staff who are smarty going for bulk) and tip 20% regardless of service (never had any bad enough for zero).

I’ve experienced it when I’ve been in Australia. Honestly, there was no difference between the service there, and what I’ve experienced at home in Canada, or when I’ve travelled in the US.

The thing about tipping is, most of us know we are supposed to tip in restaurants. But there are so many other places, and it’s hard to know.

For instance I have stayed in hotels where I was a real pain in the ass to the hotel staff because of work requirements, i.e., lots of stuff going into and out of my room, doing paste-up and using the window as a de-facto light table resulting in sticky residue, having meetings in my room (it was a suite) and needing room service delivery right fucking now and not in 45 minutes. For all that, I tipped. Pretty generously in fact.

But usually when I stay in a hotel I am not at all demanding and not very messy, and I don’t tip at all.

I don’t understand why the minimum tip percentage keeps going up. 10% would be fine for typical service, more for great service, and it would automatically go up as the cost of the meal increased–whether because it was a more upscale place, or just because of general inflation.

I am also distressed that all the book agents in the world now charge 15% instead of 10% (unless, I guess, you are grandfathered in to the old rate because you are Stephen King or Danielle Steel–I bet they are still at 10%). It seems to me if agents want more money they should go all hard-line on the publishers. Why should the publishers get more and the agents get more and the authors get less? Okay, probably off-topic as it’s not a tip.

There’s nothing wrong with it.
Folks occasionally start threads moaning about tipping. “Oh, why do I have to make up for the lousy wages paid by cheap-ass employers … Oh no, tipping is hard and I get nervous thinking about it, blah,blah, blah.” I don’t care which end you pay from, you can tip a good waitperson a percentage (that you control) or the gratuity can be tacked on to the bill (then you have no control over what you spend), or the restaurant can just charge enough for food to pay a wage that attracts good servers. One way or the other, you’re paying. I happen to like being able to reward based on performance.

"What about mediocre service? Average service? Good service? Great service?

How much do you tip for each of those?"

I think mediocre and average are synonyms. It doesn’t require a Mensa membership to tip 10 or 15% for blah service, and calculate 20% for good, perhaps a little more for great. This just isn’t that challenging.

“In reality, I suspect most people just tip the same regardless (currently around 20%) instead of spending time and brain power on it. It seems like that would result in waiters realizing their best bet is not to provide great service, but rather to serve as many people as possible (specifically, trying to serve more of those who look like stereotypically good tippers and spending less time on stereotypically poor tippers) even as service suffers.”

I haven’t witnessed this to be the case. Unless you care to cite some study or industry poll, I’m respectfully ignoring you suspicion as a groundless uninformed opinion.

“It’s a stupid and possibly racist system.”

I’ll accept that you have the opinion that rewarding performance is stupid.

How is the ‘system’ racist? Racists are spread through our society. Is the car repair business racist, because the mechanic may not like the race of a customer and do a poor job balancing their tires? Are supermarkets racist because the bag boy may not double bag your groceries if you’re the wrong color? Are you implying that servers won’t give good service to minority members? Maybe we should all conduct public business from behind screens, or wearing masks just in case we run into a racist.

You know, we could just add a 20% gratuity to every meal (then you’d pay the same as you’re already paying, and get the average service you’re already getting); but wouldn’t you still run the risk of the racist cook spitting in your food?

Gosh.

Actually, I think we all know already that there is tipping in America, some people think it is a bad idea, and some countries handle things differently.

I was only really interested in the allegation that (1) the tipping culture in the USA has changed. and (2) that tipping used to be something white people did to black people.

I wasn’t around in 1902, but I’m inclined to believe that even in 1902 there were some white people in service industries.

Has anyone got any comments about tipping in 1902 or 1930?

Sorry. Nevermind.

I see now I was responding to something off topic, so I’ll say no more. But I was asked specifically for studies/polls, so I’ll post some cites without comment.