# Tires on Montreal subways? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 17, 2002, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tires-on-montreal-subways/143333 "2002-12-17T14:32:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tires-on-montreal-subways/143333/21 "2002-12-19T03:53:48Z")
_runs in gasping & panting_ Why does nobody EMAIL me when they need me??! > [@](#): > > Can anyone explain why a subway running on metal tracks needs rubber wheels? The metro does not run on metal tracks. The metro has three sets of rails per side: 1. the upright track, which is the positive DC conductor (provides power to pantographic power shoes that run along it) as well as being the wheel base for the small, horizontal guide tires; 2. the wide concrete wheelpad, the surface on which the tires run; and 3. the steel rails, which serve several purposes: a) the negative DC conductor (“third rail”); b) the rollway for the emergency steel wheels (like conventional railway wheels); c) the surface that the flat-tire detection pedal contacts (if the tire deflates, a pedal on the underside of the wheelbase contacts the rail and triggers the flat-tire signal); and d) the rails used by a number of support vehicles that run on steel wheels. Clearing up a few more things: > [@](#): > > Another downside was the fire that was caused when a tire went flat and the motorman kept running and it burst into flames. Yes. This happened in (I think) 1974; a train caught fire and burned between Laurier and Rosemont stations. Fortunately nobody was badly injured. It was the second fire incident in the metro (a collision and fire claimed a motorman’s life and a large number of trains in St-Charles garage in 1971). Immediately afterwards, a major safety revision was carried out, replacing all materials with non-flammable ones, and putting various other fire-safety measures in place, which I will expand upon if called upon to do so. Now our metro is regarded as one of the safest in the world. > [@](#): > > It is quite complicated and I think costly. It was adopted because they were building new subways in Paris that way and, monkey see, monkey do. Here are some reasons for rubber tires. 1. Reduces noise, both in station and to surrounding buildings. (The best place to hear, or not hear, this is in the lower platforms at Lionel-Groulx metro. Stand about two-thirds of the way along the platform, and you will see the train enter the station some time before you hear it.) 2. It improves performance on grades. Contrary to your assertion that there are few grades in the metro, most interstations, especially in the extensions, are built in a bowl shape. This allows the train to save power by using gravity to accelerate and decelerate. (Besides the bowl shape, there are some serious grades involved for example between Atwater and Lionel-Groulx; between Vendôme and St-Henri; and on the yellow line, which runs under the Saint Lawrence River.) > [@](#): > > “twice the power is needed because of the friction. So much heat is generated that there is no need to heat the trains or stations in the Montreal winter (where temperatures can fall to -30C and, very rarely, even lower)” > > Please tell me you are joking. Or do you _really_ believe that? This is actually no word of a lie. A frequent passenger complaint is, “Why don’t you turn down the heat?” The fact is, they _can’t_ turn down the heat. (Personally, I think the effect is exaggerated by the fact that in winter, most people are wearing warm coats and whatnot that they don’t bother to take off when in the metro.) Re fares: The current fare system is antiquated and will be replaced within the next few years. They’re planning integrated smart cards with all of the AMT (i.e. Greater Montreal) transit authorities. > [@](#): > > And on the Metro, “Pie IX” is pronounced (more or less) “pee-nerf”; try figuring THAT out when you’re an anglophone trying to remember high-school French while visiting the city And Lionel-Groulx is pronounced “Lee-onel Groo”. Anything else I can help with, feel free to ask. And we will now shamelessly plug [my excessively complete and disturbingly obsessive metro website.](http://www.metrodemontreal.com) Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tires-on-montreal-subways/143333/22 "2002-12-19T04:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > The fact is, they _can’t_ turn down the heat. So what do you do in summer? Aren’t there ventilators to cool the tunnels and/or air conditioners to cool the trains? Thanks for the authoritative and comprehensive answer by the way! ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tires-on-montreal-subways/143333/23 "2002-12-19T06:36:38Z")
> [@](#): > > So what do you do in summer? Aren’t there ventilators to cool the tunnels and/or air conditioners to cool the trains? There are fans in the trains, and some of the green-line trains (the MR-63s) have grilles in the bulkhead doors to let air blow through, but the passenger areas are not climatized at all. (The driver’s booth is air-conditioned.) Frankly, this is why I think a lot of the kvetching is due to clothing. I don’t think the system actually is that much warmer in the winter. I think it’s more or less the same temperature. (In fact, the stations closest to the surface, like Angrignon or Place-d’Armes, are probably rather cooler in the winter.) ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tires-on-montreal-subways/143333/24 "2002-12-19T06:40:21Z")
Oops, forgot to say that there are indeed ventilators in the tunnel, but their primary purpose isn’t cooling. It’s to 1) relieve air pressure in the tunnel, to relieve the “piston effect”, and 2) more importantly, to suck smoke out of the tunnel in case of fire. In an emergency, the computers at metro HQ can recommend and implement a course of ventilation and evacuation in seconds, to keep smoke blowing the opposite way from the people. Amazing fact: the longest tunnel in the network, two kilometres from Berri-UQAM downtown to Île Sainte-Hélène in the St. Lawrence River (Jean-Drapeau station), is equipped on the Jean-Drapeau end with fans so powerful that they could suck all the air out of a bungalow in three seconds. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tires-on-montreal-subways/143333/25 "2002-12-19T18:56:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\* > > Anything else I can help with, feel free to ask. \*\* OK, I have a few obscure questions about the Montreal Metro: 1. Have the transfer machines at Jean Drapeau station been updated to print the new station name? When I was there this summer they still printed “Ile Ste Helene”. 2. Here’s something I’ve been wondering about for years. On the maps showing the original plan for the Blue Line, a station was called Vincent D’Indy. However, when built and opened, the station was named Edouard Montpetit. Why the name change? In this case, it seems to me that the original name was better. The line crosses Vincent D’Indy street almost at a right angle, whereas it’s parallel to Edouard Montpetit street. The station Universite de Montreal is ALSO on Edouard Montpetit street, and Cote des Neiges station is only a few blocks away from it. So to me the original name gave a better idea of the exact location of the station. So why was it changed? 1. Why, specifically, are Charlevoix and De L’Eglise stations double-deck (i.e. with opposite-direction tracks and platforms above each other, instead of next to each other). I’ve read vague statements that it was made necessary by the geology, but if you know anything specific I’d be interested. 2. Similarly, why is there a wall between the tracks in the tunnel between Place St Henri and Vendome? 3. When will “visible” construction start on the Laval extension? I was there this summer and saw nothing but a field with a sign indicating the location of the future station. Thanks a lot, Ed ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tires-on-montreal-subways/143333/26 "2002-12-19T20:54:48Z")
I cannot answer those last questions. You know the Laval extension was an election promise for four consecutive elections and I doubted work would actually start, but I was wrong and it has. The reason they want you to put a ticket in the fare box rather than cash is that it is rather expensive to extract cash from a fare box that is largely filled with tickets. In fact, all transit systems want to cut down on handling of cash. Of course you do pay cash on the bus. The current cash fare is a full 50% larger than the fare if you buy 6 tickets. This will change somewhat on Jan. 1, when the ticket fares goes up and the cash fare doesn’t. As for fare integration with the trains, they are about to take a step backwards and the weekly and monthly passes will no longer be valid on the trains, even for zone 1. The train will have its own monthly ticket (a bit higher) that is valid on busses and metro and there will be no weekly pass for the train. As far as I know, a transfer from a bus or metro will still be valid on the train. Which allows someone with a weekly or monthly pass to get a metro transfer and get on the train, I guess. As for a new fare system, they had a request for bids on a new fare system at least in 1997 and they have done nothng, while continuing to add new fare machines on the train lines (or at least on the Two Mountains line, which I use regularly). So I wouldn’t hold my breath on that. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tires-on-montreal-subways/143333/27 "2002-12-20T05:56:24Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Have the transfer machines at Jean Drapeau station been updated to print the new station name? When I was there this summer they still printed “Ile Ste Helene”. I don’t know, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. There are ones that print PARC ANGRIGNON for Angrignon and all kinds of crazy shit. > [@](#): > > 1. Here’s something I’ve been wondering about for years. On the maps showing the original plan for the Blue Line, a station was called Vincent D’Indy. However, when built and opened, the station was named Edouard Montpetit. Why the name change? I suppose because Prof. Montpetit was more important than some composer from France 😉 I’m afraid I couldn’t tell you the real reason, though. > [@](#): > > 1. Why, specifically, are Charlevoix and De L’Eglise stations double-deck (i.e. with opposite-direction tracks and platforms above each other, instead of next to each other). I’ve read vague statements that it was made necessary by the geology, but if you know anything specific I’d be interested. Both stations are constructed in areas of Utica shale, a weak rock that’s difficult to construct in. The double-decker profile is necessary to reduce the horizontal cross-section. In fact, there was a cave-in at De L’Église during its construction, which necessitated some very quick improvisation. > [@](#): > > 1. Similarly, why is there a wall between the tracks in the tunnel between Place St Henri and Vendome? Same reason - unstable terrain. > [@](#): > > 1. When will “visible” construction start on the Laval extension? I was there this summer and saw nothing but a field with a sign indicating the location of the future station. I’ve seen photos showing the chantier - there are now visible works for all to enjoy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tires-on-montreal-subways/143333/28 "2002-12-20T13:13:20Z")
Though I don’t take the Metro much anymore, I did greatly appreciate the smooth and quiet ride. And I did find out recently why we have lines 1,2,4 and 5, but not 3. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2002, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tires-on-montreal-subways/143333/29 "2002-12-20T13:39:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hari Seldon \* > \*\*I noticed that Pittsburgh didn’t adopt rubber tires. \*\* I think an important consideration in Pittsburgh was integrating the subway system with existing light-rail cars and track. At the outset, old cars from the 1940’s were used that once saw duty as streetcars. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tires-on-montreal-subways/143333.md?page=1)