# Tit for tat **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 19, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082 "2006-10-19T13:25:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/1 "2006-10-19T13:25:15Z")
[This column](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_244a.html) reminded me of one of my favorite limericks, which I thought I’d share: There was a young woman named Pat Who bore triplets named Rat, Bat, and Tat. They were fun in the breeding But hell in the feeding When she found there was no … ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/2 "2006-10-20T03:27:08Z")
Bravo. You made \*\*The Lizard Queen \*\* cringe. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/3 "2006-10-20T04:25:57Z")
All my life (61 yrs), at the part I actually remember, I’ve thought it was a knitting term. :smack: mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/4 "2006-10-23T18:14:31Z")
My brother’s wife is in a lace-making group, so I knew that “tat” is a verb meaning “to make lace.” As far as I know, she’s still in tatters. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/5 "2006-10-23T18:20:53Z")
Could someone feel in the blank for me? I can’t figure it out. I feel dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/6 "2006-10-23T20:23:18Z")
Cat? Hat? Sat? I got nothin’. ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/7 "2006-10-23T21:00:23Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Could someone feel in the blank for me? [/QUOTE] I’m sure that feeling up _that_ blank is grounds for harassment charges! ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/8 "2006-10-23T23:15:56Z")
Did either of you, **SenorBeef** or **Terminus Est** , read the column linked in the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/9 "2006-10-23T23:43:41Z")
Of course I read it. I’m still clueless. stitch? corruption? blow? century? shot? work? joke? lucky? pun? Nothing rhymes. ---
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/10 "2006-10-23T23:50:39Z")
How about the name of the thread… ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/11 "2006-10-23T23:54:36Z")
If the answer is “tit for tat”, then that makes it a very, very lame limerick. Doesn’t fit the meter at all. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/12 "2006-10-24T00:01:10Z")
Now I get it. The limerick, not the etymology of the phrase. How 'bout “third tap”? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/13 "2006-10-24T00:04:00Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] Now I get it. The limerick, not the etymology of the phrase. How 'bout “third tap”? [/QUOTE] Yeah, meter. I couldn’t remember the proper term. Mine fite the meter. Rather well, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/14 "2006-10-24T06:18:06Z")
[QUOTE=Terminus Est] If the answer is “tit for tat”, then that makes it a very, very lame limerick. Doesn’t fit the meter at all. [/QUOTE] I’m confused. I found [this](http://poetry-magazine.com/poetry/poetry-004/08page.htm) for limerick meter and the one in the OP seems to fit. What’s the actual meter for a limerick? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/15 "2006-10-24T07:48:06Z")
[QUOTE=mangeorge] Did either of you, **SenorBeef** or **Terminus Est** , read the column linked in the OP? [/QUOTE] Assuming the answer is “tit”, it doesn’t fit well at all. Firstly, the phrasing “When she found there was no tit” is just bizarre. And it doesn’t rhyme with the second line - isn’t that standard for limmericks? (For what it’s worth, apparently my subconcious apparently agreed with that answer, when I fruedian slipped “feel” for “fill”) ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/16 "2006-10-24T07:49:18Z")
Oh, duh. The answer is the whole phrase. Makes sense now. I didn’t get it because it broke the meter - I was expecting a one syllable finish, and it’s 3. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/17 "2006-10-24T11:57:52Z")
> [@](#): > > I didn’t get it because it broke the meter - I was expecting a one syllable finish, and it’s 3. \*There was an old man from Spokane Whose verses never did scan. When told this was so He replied, “Yes, I know But I try to fit as many words into the last line as I possibly can.” Limericks are traditionally cut some slack when their last line completes the joke. I think the verse, as it stands, is pretty damned good. Pedants be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/18 "2006-10-24T13:32:33Z")
Hmm. Seems the limerick police have tightened their standards. I always thought limericks went pretty much: ba DA da da DA da da DA ba DA da da DA da da DA ba DA da da DA ba DA da da DA ba DA da da DA da da DA Also, as **Cal** says, I thought limericks were generally said in a way to “fit” them into the meter. In this one, the first two words of the last line “When she” are said quickly, to fill the initial “ba” syllable. I’m certainly no student of limericks, tho I have read a good many. And I thought that was a pretty darn common practice. In terms of lameness - uh - are you suggesting it isn’t quite up there with classics such as “If my ear were a cunt I could fuck it?” Sorry to abase a classic art form. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/19 "2006-10-24T15:59:25Z")
Well, I don’t think it was lame at all, and it made me smile, and the meter fits. “When she **found** there was no **tit** for **tat**.” You emphasize the important words, ignoring the unimportant words, and it scans just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082/20 "2006-10-24T16:11:20Z")
Limericks are allowed a lot of slop in meter. That last line could be dih-dih-DAH-dih-dih-DAH-dih-dih-DAH-dih If my EAR were a CUNT I would FUCK it. or dih-DAH-dih-dih-DAH-dih-dih-DAH or dih-DAH-dih-DAH-dih-DAh-dih-dih or, well you get the idea. In the phrase “tit for tat”, the emphasis should be on both “tit” and “tat” - TIT for TAT - or else it falls flat. If you try to fit it into your last line you’ll get something like: When she FOUND there was no TIT for TAT which simply doesn’t work. You could try jiggling the meter around: When she FOUND there WAS no tit for TAT When she FOUND there was NO tit for TAT When she FOUND there was no TIT for TAT When SHE found there WAS no tit for TAT When SHE found there was NO tit for TAT but they all sound artifical as well. **mangeorge** ’s suggestion of “third tap” actually works quite well: When she FOUND there WAS no third TAP (Limericks have some slop in the rhyme, too.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tit-for-tat/377082.md?page=2)