# "Titan" submersible investigation begins \[28-June-2023\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 28, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242 "2023-06-28T16:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Digger11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@Digger11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digger11)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/281 "2023-08-27T19:56:43Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Thanks for that link; it’s an excellent explanation. (And I’ve ordered the author’s book through my library.) > > More than ever, I’m glad that Stockton was aboard so he could die along with his victims. No amount of after-disaster punishment would ever have been sufficient had he not gone down with his folly. He was so “innovative” that he fell victim to a self-made trap so old that the ancient Greeks wrote about it. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2023, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/282 "2023-08-27T20:00:04Z")
Yeh, instead of naming his sub “Titan” he should have dubbed it “Hubris.” Or “Icarus.” ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/283 "2023-08-27T20:23:37Z")
Many people don’t remember that Kennedy appended the phrase “and returning him safely to Earth” to his challenge for “landing a man on the Moon”. The second part makes the first part harder. Mountaineering has “summit fever”, the urge to get to the top of the mountain, which can sometimes manifest by making decisions that risk the trip back down once the summit has been attained. I suppose in most disciplines where people put their lives at risk to achieve some goal, there’s an acknowledgement that the goal isn’t really reached until you’ve resumed the baseline level of safety you had when you started the trip. When the worst thing broken because you “move fast and break things” is a web hosting environment, that’s one thing. Putting people’s lives at stake, like Stockton Rush did, is obnoxious and ultimately callous, and trying to ruin the lives of people who tried to stop him from doing so is utterly beyond the pale. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/284 "2023-08-27T20:45:06Z")
> [@SunUp](#): > > Mountaineering has “summit fever”, the urge to get to the top of the mountain, which can sometimes manifest by making decisions that risk the trip back down once the summit has been attained. A couple of [Ed Viestus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Viesturs) quotes come to mind: _“Getting to the top is optional. Getting down is mandatory.”_ _“The summit is just a halfway point.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2023, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/285 "2023-08-28T12:18:48Z")
Stockton Rush just sounds like an 80’s bad guy name, doesn’t it? He should have been the head jock in a movie with Dean Cameron. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2023, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/286 "2023-08-28T12:55:11Z")
He sounds like someone out of an Ayn Rand novel. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/287 "2023-08-28T13:12:23Z")
A Randian hero if he actually lived in the real world, which naturally makes him a villain because Rand was a terrible writer. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2023, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/288 "2023-08-28T13:12:38Z")
The arrogant 1%. Thinking that their money buys them out of the Laws of Nature. ☠ ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/289 "2023-08-28T16:40:55Z")
I wonder if this whole situation is going to make people rethink going aboard Musk’s Starship? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/290 "2023-08-28T16:46:30Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > I wonder if this whole situation is going to make people rethink going aboard Musk’s Starship? - What if he guarantees it won’t implode? ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2023, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/291 "2023-08-28T18:29:33Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > I wonder if this whole situation is going to make people rethink going aboard Musk’s Starship? I rethought it some time back when her termed his SpaceX explosion, “exciting”. 😳 ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/292 "2023-08-28T18:47:33Z")
From the article: > “The OceanGate engineering team does not plan to obtain a hull scan and does not believe the same to be readily available or particularly effective in any event,” the company’s lawyer, Thomas Gilman, wrote in March 2018. Their lawyer was named Gilman? Of the Innsmouth Gilmans? Did the quote continue “Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!” ? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/293 "2023-08-28T21:01:25Z")
> [@mixdenny](#): > > I wonder if this whole situation is going to make people rethink going aboard Musk’s Starship? And would Elon have the guts/integrity to go on the trip? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/294 "2023-08-28T21:08:12Z")
Crew Dragon is probably the safest flying crewed orbital craft, and there’s zero evidence of them taking any shortcuts (unlike their competitor Boeing). Starship won’t carry passengers until it’s flown safely a hundred or so times with cargo only. No comparison whatsoever to what Rush did. He could have proven (or not) his design with actual testing along with uncrewed descents, but didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2023, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/295 "2023-08-28T23:56:50Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > No matter their name, but that is the huge red flag for “Entitled Asshole Tech Bro Narcisist for whom the laws don’t apply” … that became somewhat fashionable in the past 1-2 decades … And from all the articles it comes that his usual response to any hint of pushback was, indignation, intimidation, dismissiveness, misdirection, basically “shut up, who the hell are you to question me”. Yep. “Alpha” Bro ways. Disruption as a value in and of itself. … I’ve been telling you all for years, we need a hit movie/HBO series where the guys who save the world and get the girls are the squares who play by rules and make evidence-based decisions. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/296 "2023-08-30T00:56:53Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I’ve been telling you all for years, we need a hit movie/HBO series where the guys who save the world and get the girls are the squares who play by rules and make evidence-based decisions. Yeah, it’s been 28 years since _Apollo 13_. Someone get Ron Howard on the line! ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/297 "2023-08-30T01:06:37Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I’ve been telling you all for years, we need a hit movie/HBO series where the guys who save the world and get the girls are the squares who play by rules and make evidence-based decisions. Like _Moneyball_, but for the action/adventure genre? Or _Oppenheimer_ without the downer ending? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/298 "2023-08-30T16:44:39Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Their lawyer was named Gilman? Of the Innsmouth Gilmans? Did the quote continue “Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!” ? _Dagon’s Launch_ is kind of weird name for a sub, right? ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/299 "2023-08-30T16:49:26Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > _Dagon’s Launch_ is kind of weird name for a sub, right? It’s just an error on the registration form. An extra “a” snuck in there. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/300 "2023-08-30T17:33:00Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > “If you’re not breaking things, you’re not innovating,” he declared at the 2022 GeekWire Summit. “If you’re operating within a known environment, as most submersible manufacturers do, they don’t break things. To me, the more stuff you’ve broken, the more innovative you’ve been.” Well, I guess he “innovated” the shit out of his Titan, didn’t he? I guess he forgot the basic tenant: every safety regulation was written in blood. Did he think you “innovate” until something breaks, or someone gets hurt, then you back off a little? > [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > More than ever, I’m glad that Stockton was aboard so he could die along with his victims. No amount of after-disaster punishment would ever have been sufficient had he not gone down with his folly. I kind of wish he hadn’t died. Had to appreciate karmic payback when you’re dead. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242.md?page=16)