# "Titan" submersible investigation begins \[28-June-2023\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 28, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242 "2023-06-28T16:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/361 "2024-05-29T15:14:12Z")
It was actually [Barrett and Gilman](https://bgseattle.com/attorneys/thomas-l-gilman/) that was representing Oceangate. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/362 "2024-05-29T15:27:48Z")
They have the finest office in Innsmouth. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/363 "2024-05-29T17:29:17Z")
A real white-pseudopod firm. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/364 "2024-05-31T09:47:22Z")
They’re also silent partners in a local hotel. Fine place. Very sturdy locks. So why is this other rich guy trying to go to the Titanic wreck? Is there a big demand, or is it an ego thing? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/365 "2024-05-31T17:46:11Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > So why is this other rich guy trying to go to the Titanic wreck? Is there a big demand, or is it an ego thing? There is certainly some demand, as Stockton Rush was repeatedly able to find well-heeled clients. Whether there is enough to make it a truly viable long-term moneymaker is an open question - I don’t think it is ever going to be possible to make it truly cheap for the masses. But as a niche hobby business I imagine it might be viable, just not the way Rush went about it. But if you’re a billionaire, I guess ultimately it really doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/366 "2024-06-11T14:58:21Z")
Lengthy new article: > **[The Titan Submersible Disaster Shocked the World. The Inside Story Is More...](https://www.wired.com/story/titan-submersible-disaster-inside-story-oceangate-files/)** > > A year after OceanGate’s sub imploded, thousands of leaked documents and interviews with ex-employees reveal how the company’s CEO cut corners, ignored warnings, and lied in his fatal quest to reach the Titanic. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/367 "2024-06-11T15:37:21Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > But… but… he was a _disruptor_. - Now he’s the disruptee. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/368 "2024-06-11T15:40:54Z")
Holy crow! That thing was a death trap from day 1. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/369 "2024-06-11T15:51:15Z")
Yes, Remarkably the mainstream consensus can be entirely correct. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/370 "2024-06-11T18:02:19Z")
He’s certainly been disrupted. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/371 "2024-06-11T18:24:08Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > But if you’re a billionaire, I guess ultimately it really doesn’t matter. Rush wasn’t a billionaire. He wasn’t even a hundred-millionaire. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/372 "2024-06-11T18:30:25Z")
Which is paywalled. I doubt there would be any value in attempting to summarize? Wired articles are IME just detailed narrations of the facts already known through other sources. Well-written narratives usually, to be sure, but nothing that contributes to understanding a well-understood news event. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/373 "2024-06-11T19:04:19Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Which is paywalled. It wasn’t for me. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/374 "2024-06-11T19:20:19Z")
It was for me the first time I clicked on the link, the second time it wasn’t. I have no idea how that works. I didn’t feel it had a lot truly new, but it did add more details to the general outline I think most of us here are familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/375 "2024-06-11T19:23:17Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > I doubt there would be any value in attempting to summarize? Wired articles are IME just detailed narrations of the facts already known through other sources. Briefly: Rush didn’t listen to experts, wouldn’t pay for certification, and fired anybody that didn’t agree with is vision. But the parts I didn’t know: The original design had carbon fiber domes! They failed in testing. At least Rush paid attention there. They had did a pressure test on a scaled model that imploded in the test stand about 3000-ish meters. Rush promised more testing, including a plan of pressure cycling the hull. Never happened. The first actual hull cracked and de-laminated _badly_ and had to be replaced Rush wouldn’t spring for new titanium domes and managed to reuse to old ones. It is possible they were damaged getting them off the old hull. Rush added lifting eyes to the titanium domes, even though this puts stress on the joints that they can’t take. The hull cracked loudly on its previous trip to deep water. ---
**Author:** ![motu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/motu/32/259_2.png) [@motu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/motu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/376 "2024-06-11T19:32:30Z")
The second hull was laminated in a several step process unlike the first one. They did pressure test a small scale model of the first hull which failed well before the targeted safety factor. They did not do any small scale model for the second hull, just went ahead and made it and used it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/377 "2024-06-11T19:38:04Z")
Rush was adamant that his systems could listen for symptoms of partial failure and by monitoring these, avert a catastrophe if they began to escalate; the problem with this idea is that it doesn’t work if those partial failures result in an overall weaker structure - there would be no time to back off to a safe depth - it fails a little bit, then _because_ it failed a little bit, it fails more, then all the way. The interval between these events being tiny fractions of a second. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/378 "2024-06-11T19:43:29Z")
It’s more along the same lines as we’ve known, but even worse. Too bad he won’t be posthumously tried for multiple counts of negligent homicide in absentia. It’s one thing to be narcissistically arrogant, but Rush was just plain stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/379 "2024-06-11T20:41:02Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > the problem with this idea is that it doesn’t work if those partial failures result in an overall weaker structure - there would be no time to back off to a safe depth - it fails a little bit, then _because_ it failed a little bit, it fails more, then all the way. The interval between these events being tiny fractions of a second. The man clearly didn’t know what a chain rection was. > [@garygnu](#): > > Too bad he won’t be posthumously tried for multiple counts of negligent homicide in absentia. I wonder if any of the engineers who supported/contributed to the pressure hull’s design and “certified” the working depth could be / will be held accountable for the 5 deaths? Whether or not they _should_ be is a different question, and not one I’m sure how to answer. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/380 "2024-06-11T20:56:21Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > > [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > > > So why is this other rich guy trying to go to the Titanic wreck? Is there a big demand, or is it an ego thing? > > There is certainly some demand, as Stockton Rush was repeatedly able to find well-heeled clients. Whether there is enough to make it a truly viable long-term moneymaker is an open question Also, there is no long term. The Titanic wreck is deteriorating rapidly. It’s becoming less and less interesting as it begins to resemble the ocean bottom rather than what it once was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242.md?page=20)