# "Titan" submersible investigation begins \[28-June-2023\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 28, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242 "2023-06-28T16:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/561 "2025-06-16T14:08:11Z")
I watched the Discovery show last night. I think I was really telling that their Indiana Jones guy, who usually rah-rahs whichever hack he’s with that week, was not buying Rush’s BS. There was one point where he looked at the camera with Rush smiling behind him, and his expression clearly said, “What the hell am I doing on this deathtrap?” Of the two, I think the Netflix one was better - it really dug into the numerous technical problems, ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/562 "2025-06-16T16:31:31Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > or pretend the unprivileged don’t ever do such things There’s a difference between, “Hold my beer and watch this!” and killing four others besides yourself for the money. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/563 "2025-06-16T16:46:38Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > There’s a difference between, “Hold my beer and watch this!” and killing four others besides yourself for the money. I can only surmise that, being rich and privileged, he just couldn’t conceive of failing because his entire life was spent acquiring every single thing he wanted and being successful at every single thing he did. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/564 "2025-06-16T17:01:49Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > There’s a difference between, “Hold my beer and watch this!” and killing four others besides yourself for the money. Both are thinking physics (or biology, or whatever other science you like) doesn’t apply to you and you will win, despite all evidence to the contrary. And both can and do kill others than just the perpetrator (though certainly certain rich have more ability to hurt more others - but that’s a difference of degree, not kind, and not a difference in arrogance). And, of course, there are actions of both done sober quite often. The person choosing to stay in an area where a hurricane or some such is coming and evacuation has been ordered would be one example. Starting fires when there’s a no-burn regulation in effect is another (and probably more applicable). Same sort of arrogance. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/565 "2025-06-16T17:13:07Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > > [@DesertDog](#): > > > > There’s a difference between, “Hold my beer and watch this!” and killing four others besides yourself for the money. > > I can only surmise that, being rich and privileged, he just couldn’t conceive of failing because his entire life was spent acquiring every single thing he wanted and being successful at every single thing he did. You hit the nail on the head, @Jasmine . He’s been so used to getting his way all good life, that he became a bully towards people who questioned him. And he became a bully to Isaac Newton and physics. And he lost. He was a punk who needed to have the shit kicked out of him for his own good. Finally, 6,000 PSI did it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/566 "2025-06-16T17:21:23Z")
Works every time! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/567 "2025-06-16T17:34:40Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > He’s been so used to getting his way all good life, that he became a bully towards people who questioned him. I’ve been watching [**Titan: The OceanGate Submersible Disaster**](https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/titan-documentary-release-date-news) on Netflix, and I got a good look at his ego. Anyone working on the project was terrified at the prospect of being viewed as negative in any way. Even the most valid concerns voiced in a scientific and nonthreatening way was cause for termination. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/568 "2025-06-16T21:26:03Z")
The Discovery special did delve a little deeper into his psyche. Because of his family background (and his wife’s), he seems to have felt driven to attain, attain, attain, because otherwise he’d be a failure. Which would be shameful, and not to be borne. None of which in any way excused his playing Russian roulette with the laws of physics, especially when (as was noted) he had no idea how many rounds were in the pistol. And doubly so when other lives were involved. It just added a bit more context. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2025, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/569 "2025-06-16T23:29:49Z")
> [@Mollie\_Magill](#): > > Of the two, I think the Netflix one was better - it really dug into the numerous technical problems, Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2025, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/570 "2025-06-17T02:00:08Z")
Thirded. Although watching them back-to-back I was surprised at how much they didn’t actually overlap. There was very little of the same footage used in both docs and they used different people for the interviews. I don’t feel like I saw the same thing twice but that each one focused on different aspects. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2025, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/571 "2025-06-17T02:36:13Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > Arrogance. Hubris. It’s the modern meme among the privileged that they can make reality conform to their will. No, you can’t - physics wins every time. > > Firstly, I think it very unfair to lump all the privileged together (or pretend the unprivileged don’t ever do such things). Secondly, this is hardly a modern development. I not talking about someone who has inherited money, or is male, or is White, or any other trait someone might have lucked into. You are correct that hubris is not a modern invention, but there is an element of “tech bros” or CEO/entrepreneur who gets accustomed to solving problems by throwing money at them and/or threatening to screw people over if they don’t agree 100% with the owner. Not all people of privilege are like this, but people like Stockton Rush seem to be invariably from privilege. Rush just didn’t want to hear anything that didn’t conform to his notion of reality. After seeing a number of documentaries on the matter, including the recent Netflix, it’s clear Rush was delusional, convinced he was right and everyone else was wrong, including fact-based evidence that he was wrong. His “real time acoustical monitoring system” actually _worked,_ you know? It was clear that it was screaming “the fiber is freakin’ failing!” on _multiple_ dives prior to the last one. What sort of idiot installs a warning system then ignores it when it goes off? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2025, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/572 "2025-06-17T03:36:17Z")
Kinda like the fireman on [_The Best Friend of Charleston_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_Friend_of_Charleston) who disabled the pressure relief valve because the noise annoyed him. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2025, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/573 "2025-06-17T05:15:29Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > > [@Bullitt](#): > > > > He’s been so used to getting his way all good life, that he became a bully towards people who questioned him. > > I’ve been watching [**Titan: The OceanGate Submersible Disaster**](https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/titan-documentary-release-date-news) on Netflix, and I got a good look at his ego. Anyone working on the project was terrified at the prospect of being viewed as negative in any way. Even the most valid concerns voiced in a scientific and nonthreatening way was cause for termination. The emperor has no clothes? No, he looks great to me! Well dressed, very dapper. He’s dressed to the 9s! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2025, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/574 "2025-06-17T12:27:14Z")
As noted in the article, a LOT of boiler tenders fiddled with safety valves to improve the performance of their boiler. Steamship explosions were also commonplace in that era for that reason. Those folks’ might not have been as delusional as Rush. But “It won’t happen to me” is a very common human failing. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2025, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/575 "2025-06-17T17:57:21Z")
Did anyone watch, or remember, ABC’s _Truth and Lies: Fatal Dive to the Titanic_ from last year? It’s been over a year since I’ve seen it, and I was wondering how it compares. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2025, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/576 "2025-06-18T04:30:28Z")
It was the noise thing I was thinking of, a boiler explosion being the polar opposite of a submarine hull implosion. About the only thing they have in common is pressure. And water. _Two_ things they have in common are pressure and water. Three! Three things are pressure, water, and hubris. I’ll come in again. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2025, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/577 "2025-06-18T06:20:55Z")
I rewatched the ABC one, it was much mire if a personality story, and less technical. They interviewed people who had made earlier trips, and also the father and son who decided it was too risky and backed out, allowing the other father and son to go. Maybe a bit too much Cameron and footage from Titanic, but it did set the tone. Thought it did seem Sidonie Nargeolet lost her ability to speak English between 2024 and 2025. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2025, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/578 "2025-06-18T11:08:29Z")
I forgot about the ABC one. I’m pretty sure I watched it when it came out. Regarding this that I posted earlier — > [@Bullitt](#): > > The Discovery one also has something the Netflix one doesn’t: descriptions of a LARS platform failure on dive 87 (immediately preceding dive 88 when it imploded less than a week after). Dive 87 was unsuccessful because of that LARS platform failure. In that failure, the LARS platform failed to release the Titan submersible at the water surface, and Titan remained attached by two pivots at its rear. With people inside Titan, including Stockton Rush, this couple described how the wave action repeatedly lifted the front end of Titan off of the LARS and, with the rear end still attached, the Titan repeatedly pivoted and slammed down hard onto the LARS platform. The impacts were described by these occupants as “bone jarring” and they recurred repeatedly for about an hour. > > This is extremely alarming because the Titan’s structure was not designed to withstand these kinds of dynamic forces from these repeated impacts. Intense hydrodynamic pressures due to 4,000m dives is one thing, but repeated slamming and banging of the Titan on its cradle against the LARS is another thing altogether. > > Steven Ross, a former OceanGate scientific director who was on board when this happened, describes it here — > > ➜ [Titan submersible malfunctioned days prior to the fatal dive, former scientific director testifies | CNN](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/09/19/us/titan-submersible-oceangate-implosion-update) ■ That was **not** in the Discovery documentary. It must have been in another YouTube video. I’ve watched so many that I lost track of where I’d seen that. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2025, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/579 "2025-06-18T11:18:42Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Did anyone watch, or remember, ABC’s _Truth and Lies: Fatal Dive to the Titanic_ from last year? It’s been over a year since I’ve seen it, and I was wondering how it compares. I searched for this on YouTube and on YouTube TV, and I couldn’t find it. Do you have a link? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2025, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/580 "2025-06-18T13:07:58Z")
[I think this link should work.](https://vimeo.com/1069351981) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242.md?page=30)