# "Titan" submersible investigation begins \[28-June-2023\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 28, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242 "2023-06-28T16:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/681 "2025-08-11T04:53:11Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > > [@Cervaise](#): > > > > Any passenger car can be a submarine for a little while, once. > > [Maxim 11:](https://schlockmercenary.fandom.com/wiki/The_Seventy_Maxims_of_Maximally_Effective_Mercenaries) > Everything is air-droppable at least once. The version I’ve heard is you can eat any wild mushroom you find in the woods and you can eat some of them a second time. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/682 "2025-08-11T05:12:45Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Nevertheless, it did prove that it can be done once, and history suggests that if you can do something once you can do it again with enough effort. So when will hydrogen dirigibles take off? I mean, heck, the Hindenburg must have taken off successfully dozens of times and it wasn’t anywhere near the _first_ such aircraft. And like you say, if you can do it even once you can do it again with enough effort! Or maybe—hear me out—just because you _can_ do something once doesn’t meant it’s bound to be a viable solution to an engineering problem going forward. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/683 "2025-08-11T05:21:35Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > So when will hydrogen dirigibles take off? Possible is not the same as practical. I think hydrogen dirigibles could be made perfectly safe today. But the business model for them leaves much to be desired (which isn’t to say they aren’t being tried–there are multiple airship startups today, some of them using hydrogen). Still, maybe. There was a recent thread where a 557,000 lb transformer had to be moved, blocking off city streets and requiring them to bend stoplights out of the way. A 1 km zeppelin would make short work of that. But there might not be enough loads of that nature to justify the vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/684 "2025-08-11T13:17:20Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Possible is not the same as practical. Indeed. And I’d say that if history teaches us anything about things that happen once, it’s that: possible is not the same as practical. It’s going to take a lot more engineering by actual engineers (not Rush-types) to convince me that carbon fiber will be a practical material for manned submersibles operating several kilometers deep, and not just one of history’s “possibles.” ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/685 "2025-08-11T13:41:09Z")
Flying Whales are targeting a market that looks like that. The lifting gas is helium, the power will be hydrogen fuel cells. I believe they are targeting entry into service for 2028 or so. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/686 "2025-08-11T13:45:46Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > The fact that there currently isn’t an industry guidance such as an ASTM or SAE standard for carbon fiber crewed submersible pressure vessels tells me the science is still a long way off from being commercially viable. No, it just is a reflecttion that the market is extremely small–and it is very rare to write up ASM or SAE standards for extremely small markets. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/687 "2025-08-11T14:07:57Z")
I csn see how it would be unlikely to have an “industry standard” for something that is essentially custom experimental one-offs like this. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/688 "2025-08-11T17:05:52Z")
Fair point! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/689 "2025-08-11T20:51:34Z")
Except there seems to be standards for metal deep-sea submersibles. That was one of the points that came out early in the disaster: experts in the area of submersibles said that they were predicting an epic fail, because he wasn’t going through the rigorous testing that they used for metal submersibles. It may be a small market, but there’s apparently well-developed standards. You would think that the developer of a new vessel would run tests already developed for deep-sea submersibles, especially for a new and innovative design. Of course, you would be wrong in that expectation for Stockton Rush. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2025, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/690 "2025-08-11T21:01:19Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > to convince me that carbon fiber will be a practical material for manned submersibles operating several kilometers deep, and not just one of history’s “possibles.” I feel like you’re conflating a couple definitions of “practical”. An engineered thing can be practical in the sense that it serves a useful purpose and works as designed. But then there’s another level of practical which is really just “cost-effective enough to close the business case”. Lots of things succeed at the first but fail the second. Most small-payload rockets. The Airbus A380. Modern zeppelins, probably. And, I suspect, _any_ sub design, CF or not, intended to shuttle passengers to the Titanic. There is just no intersection point between the market size and the cost to run such a sub. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2025, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/691 "2025-10-16T02:53:47Z")
> **[Faulty engineering led to implosion of Titan submersible headed to Titanic...](https://apnews.com/article/titan-titanic-implosion-submersible-ntsb-report-engineering-47115c2fb51c598b3b8a80043838dcdf)** > > The National Transportation Safety Board says faulty engineering led to the implosion of an experimental submersible that killed five people en route to the wreck of the Titanic. Investigation page of final report is at: > **[DCA23FM036.aspx](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/DCA23FM036.aspx)** Actual report: > **[MIR2536.pdf](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MIR2536.pdf)** > > 5.52 MB ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2025, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/692 "2025-10-20T01:13:52Z")
> **[OceanGate Titan submersibles' catastrophic implosion crushed its computers...](https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/oceangate-titan-computers-crushed-into-twisted-mass-of-metal-and-electronics-during-catastrophic-implosion-investigators-find-signs-of-thermal-damage-too)** > > The camera equipment fared far better. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2025, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/693 "2025-10-20T10:01:47Z")
So…some serious data compression? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2025, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/694 "2025-10-20T10:02:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So…compressed data? Hah!! (Your edited version works just as well). ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2025, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/695 "2025-10-20T10:05:47Z")
Either way, what’s left is a clump of … stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2025, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/696 "2025-10-20T10:38:51Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Hah!! (Your edited version works just as well). Yep, I was searching for the perfect wording and thanks to you I have the best of both alternatives. > [@Spoons](#): > > Either way, what’s left is a clump of … stuff. [This YT video goes into more depth.](https://youtu.be/qMUjCZ7MMWQ?si=S-FsO_MYgvNncDN6) The first comment on the video at the time I linked has a variation of my above statements, or rather, what I posted is a variation of that comment. (Only fair to give a source) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2025, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/697 "2025-10-20T16:50:42Z")
ISWYDT. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2026, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/698 "2026-03-08T10:13:11Z")
I just watched on YouTube, _The Titan Sun Disaster: Minute by Minute_ (➜ `https://youtu.be/9LZmPYxTRXk` ■ ). It was released 5 months ago. What’s good about this one is that it covered those involved in the S&R attempts and shared what they were thinking as they raced to locate and retrieve the Titan submersible before its air expired for the occupants. Until the debris was discovered on the ocean floor they believed there was a chance (albeit a slight one) that they could save the occupants. But alas… I just searched for criminal charges against those involved and responsible, but did not find any. Will any be filed? Will anyone be charged? Besides the dead Stockton Rush, who is culpable? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2026, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/699 "2026-03-08T10:39:45Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually, it turns out the acoustic-based warning systems DOES work! It was pretty clear that the warning system was picking up failure in the hull on prior dives. It’s just that Stockton Rush ignored what it was telling him. I recall a quote from him during an earlier dive about the _audible noises_ coming from the hull as fibers snapped, about how those were “fibers not strong enough to be on the team”. He was willing to ignore his own ears, much less instrumentation. Physics failed to return the favor and ignore him, however. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2026, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/700 "2026-03-08T12:51:16Z")
The problem with those audible noises is that you don’t know where the failure point is. Which straw will break the camels back? Oh. Wait. Stockton Rush. He found out. 😜 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242.md?page=36)