# "Titan" submersible investigation begins \[28-June-2023\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 28, 2023, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242 "2023-06-28T16:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/141 "2023-07-05T16:29:08Z")
I am not claustrophobic in the least. I love small tight areas. But seeing this one actually gave me bad dreams. Being bolted inside and not being able to escape… we just re-watched Disney’s 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and Captain Nemo’s submersible is by every evidence luxurious as hell and you wouldn’t catch me dead there either. In a place I cannot get out? Not if you paid me 250K. And now you all are saying it might not have been instantaneous, there might have been time for them to understand what was happening? Horrors. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/142 "2023-07-05T18:46:41Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > And now you all are saying it might not have been instantaneous, there might have been time for them to understand what was happening? Apparently they sent a message that they had dropped ballast before they lost communications and the support ship heard the implosion. Rush wouldn’t have been in a rush to get back top unless it was absolutely clear to him that shit had got real. > **[A former OceanGate advisor said the Titanic submersible dropped its weights...](https://www.insider.com/former-oceangate-advisor-titanic-sub-tried-to-surface-before-imploding-2023-7)** > > Rob McCallum said the Titan dropped its weights and was trying to ascend before it lost communication with its mother ship. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/143 "2023-07-05T18:53:49Z")
Mother of god. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/144 "2023-07-05T18:57:32Z")
I don’t like the idea of the _passengers_ dying in terror, but I absolutely hope that _Rush_ was 100% aware of the certainty that he was about to become chum. That type of arrogant hubris begs for a puncturing. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/145 "2023-07-05T19:19:28Z")
It’s very possible they were all panicking at the time. But it’s also possible they still had no idea of the severity of the situation. Rush evidently believed acoustic monitoring was a sufficient warning system and would provide plenty of time before catastrophic failure. If the alarm pinged, he might have been initiating a “routine” abort. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/146 "2023-07-05T19:33:09Z")
It’s also possible, within that scenario, that Rush simply told his victims “Oh. We’re getting an caution light indicating we should return to the surface, so I’m dropping ballast. No need to worry, we’re still plenty safe, everything is working as it’s supp—” ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/147 "2023-07-05T19:35:20Z")
The thing that gets me is why the support crew waited so long after they’d heard the implosion to report the sub as missing. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/148 "2023-07-05T19:35:46Z")
I have t actually seen that reported. Maybe I missed it in that Insider article? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/149 "2023-07-05T19:38:01Z")
I was under the impression that they had waited until the sub’s expected return time before reporting it. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/150 "2023-07-05T19:40:20Z")
Sure… but that doesn’t mean they heard the implosion from the support ship itself. And merely losing contact with a submersible doesn’t mean it imploded either. It doesn’t even necessarily mean it’s suffered a communication equipment failure. It might just mean there is some refraction going on with the signals. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/151 "2023-07-05T19:46:52Z")
I dont want them all cowering in terror either but most of them were old enough to know better and I have little sympathy for them. But I do feel for the 19 YO kid. I have never believed that one stupid mistake at 19 should ruin your life forever, and this kid didn’t even make a mistake? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/152 "2023-07-05T19:52:27Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I have t actually seen that reported. Maybe I missed it in that Insider article? I know somewhere mentioned that the surface ship heard the implosion. But even if it isn’t stated it makes no sense whatsoever that they would not hear it. Communications from the sub were acoustic, not radio. So they were listening to faint clicks with hydrophones. How could they not have heard the implosion? [![](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8b6be8d876461dc9bd36444f46f5e532-pjlq) ](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8b6be8d876461dc9bd36444f46f5e532-pjlq) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/153 "2023-07-05T19:58:23Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > So they were listening to faint clicks with hydrophones. That seems extremely doubtful. Do you have a source for that? In this context, acoustic communications usually means an electronic system for turning digital messages into a sound, and the same on the other end for decoding. They’d no more know about a loud noise than you’d know about an electromagnetic blast from your cell phone. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/154 "2023-07-05T20:10:01Z")
> When the Titan is submerged, communications with the support ship on the surface are conducted over an acoustic link. Crewed submersibles sometimes have two separate systems with independent power supplies: one an acoustic beacon that regularly pings the ship to reveal its location, and another that can carry short text-like messages. This ensures that if the main power supply fails, the beacon keeps working, allowing the surface ship to track the vessel. > **[Best and worst case scenarios to explain Titan’s loss of contact with surface](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/20/missing-titanic-submarine-best-and-worst-case-scenarios)** > > The missing submarine had enough oxygen to sustain those onboard for four days, but limited air is far from the only hazard ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/155 "2023-07-05T20:16:30Z")
That doesn’t change what @Dr.Strangelove pointed out. Both those systems are using acoustic signals on some specific frequency to carry information, just like radio waves. It doesn’t mean that the ship had any acoustic listening devices for hearing actual underwater sounds. Maybe it did, but none of that says that. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/156 "2023-07-05T20:18:20Z")
Plus, even the dumb beacons use ultrasonic frequencies. It’s not like a WW2 sub movie with some guy wearing giant headphones. There will be some narrowband filter to pick out the exact beacon frequency, and an electronic system to detect the pings. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/157 "2023-07-05T20:19:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > That doesn’t change what @Dr.Strangelove pointed out. But it _is_ the source for why I said it. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/158 "2023-07-05T23:35:38Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Sorry, I’m not aware of one. Don’t know if you’re familiar with Behind the Bastards, but it’s a comedic podcast that discusses in depth real historical (and modern day) bastards so you really need to listen to it to get the maximum enjoyment. Thank you for making me aware of this podcast. I got only about halfway through the primal diet one on “high meat” (urk, not for weak stomachs), listened to the one about the Jews who tried to get revenge for the Holocaust which was absolutely riveting, and now I just got started on Stockton Rush, which, they point out, is some Ayn Rand-ass name that he got from two slaveholding ancestors. I’m looking forward to the rest. It’s kind of hardcore history meets comedy meets raising a number of ethical questions with no easy answers. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/159 "2023-07-05T23:49:22Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Stockton Rush, which, they point out, is some Ayn Rand-ass name that he got from two slaveholding ancestors. Or, another way of putting it, two “Founding Fathers” of the United States. [https://www.ushistory.org/declaration/signers/stockton.html](https://www.ushistory.org/declaration/signers/stockton.html) > **[Signers of the Declaration of Independence: Benjamin Rush](https://www.ushistory.org/declaration/signers/rush.html)** > > Brief biographies of all the signers of the Declaration of Independence ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2023, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242/160 "2023-07-05T23:53:47Z")
Oh, and I see from the Rush piece: > He was also a social activist, a prominent advocate for the abolition of slavery, an advocate for scientific education for the masses, including women, and for public medical clinics to treat the poor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titan-submersible-investigation-begins-28-june-2023/986242.md?page=9)