# Titanic tourist submarine missing 6-19-2023 (Debris field found, passengers presumed dead. 06-22-23) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 19, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781 "2023-06-19T16:29:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/41 "2023-06-19T22:09:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I hope they’re ok and just waiting for rescue. Rescue how? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/42 "2023-06-19T22:11:56Z")
Salvage boats drag stuff out of the ocean. The hard part is attaching a cable hook. Is a submersible able to use air to rise up towards the surface? Like a submarine? ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/43 "2023-06-19T22:48:55Z")
As mentioned, it can release ballast and should float after – I do no not know the mechanism to do so – hopefully something very simple and failure resistant. On option would be to have the ballast held by electromagnets and in the case of power loss the ballast would drop. (but again, I do not know the ballast release mechanism) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/44 "2023-06-19T23:07:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The submersible seemed very sturdy and safe. That’s what they said about the Titanic. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/45 "2023-06-19T23:16:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Riding the original _Titanic_ would have been cheaper, even taking inflation into account. And the Titanic had better food. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/46 "2023-06-19T23:40:05Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I was just reading this article. What a stupid idea this whole operation is. The company OceanGate was hoping to use adventure tourism to fund deep sea exploration which doesn’t strike me as entirely stupid given there are billionaires interested in going where no billionaire has gone before, or at least not too often. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > On the other hand… I read that this sub was considered experimental. Can anyone confirm that? If that was the case, there is a lot of blame and curses to direct to the organizers. Pretty much anything going that deep into the ocean is “experimental”. There are no assembly lines churning out standardized vehicles for that sort of thing. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Surely they’d have one of those locator beacons onboard? Maybe maybe not - trying to get a signal through that much water is quite a trick. Though having a beacon for when it surfaces would probably be a good idea. Wouldn’t be of much use if it wound up on the bottom, though. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > This is a silly little tourist sub. No, it actually was intended and used as a research vessel. Are you aware of the really awesome scan/digital representation of the Titanic done in 2021? This is the sub and company that did it. And it’s tourist money funding that sort of research. Personally, provided all participants are fully informed of the risks, I’m OK with billionaires taking a ride like this. Supposedly, the tourists are trained to perform useful tasks during these dives and not just ooo-ing and aaa-ing out the window. > [@wolfpup](#): > > I had been under the impression (apparently wrongly) that frivolous tourism to the Titanic wreck had been prohibited. Obviously not, since OceanGate has been operating such tours (but I suspect this is going to put them out of business). Again, OceanGate is supposedly conducting actual research and science, not _just_ tourism. Also, they have not in any way touched or altered the wreck itself, just viewed it/scanned it/etc. from some distance. Is that claim legit? Well… could be. I don’t have enough information to come down hard on either yes or no on that question. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/47 "2023-06-20T00:27:12Z")
One of the reporters who spent some time on it last year mentioned there are no comms available once it is submerged, except for short text messages when directly below the surface vessel. Further, if the vessel were able to surface, he said the passengers and crew are unable to exit without outside (or topside) assistance, they are bolted in. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/48 "2023-06-20T00:48:52Z")
No. They didn’t say the Titanic seemed safe. They said it was unsinkable. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/49 "2023-06-20T01:08:10Z")
I would think the ballast would be designed to fail safe (i.e. to detach in thecase of a power failure). Otherwise, a power failure on descent means death. One possibility is a hull rupture. If the hull failed, everyone in it would die instantly and the thing would sink to the bottom. That would explain no contact, no floating sub. They might eventually find some floating debris, but it’s a big ocean. The failure occurred at 1 hour 45 minutes, which is very close to being at the bottom. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > This is a silly little tourist sub. No, it’s a highly advanced research sub that has been repurposed for tourists. It normally does scientific work. It’s designed to go down to 13,128 ft (4000 m), which isn’t much deeper than Titanic’s 12,500 ft depth. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/50 "2023-06-20T01:19:12Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > I had been under the impression (apparently wrongly) that frivolous tourism to the Titanic wreck had been prohibited. Obviously not, since OceanGate has been operating such tours (but I suspect this is going to put them out of business). > > Again, OceanGate is supposedly conducting actual research and science, not _just_ tourism. Also, they have not in any way touched or altered the wreck itself, just viewed it/scanned it/etc. from some distance. > > Is that claim legit? Well… could be. I don’t have enough information to come down hard on either yes or no on that question. To the best of my understanding, Oceangate itself is a private for-profit company that doesn’t really conduct research, except into the engineering of submersibles, of which they have three, but two are only for shallow waters. The one currently missing is the only one by a large margin that can reach the Titanic’s depth. However, the company does sponsor the Oceangate Foundation which does in fact make grants for marine research, but I have no idea how substantial those grants are. Also, some news outlets are reporting that in addition to billionaire Hamish Harding, there are unconfirmed reports that Oceangate CEO and founder Stockton Rush is also among those aboard. ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/51 "2023-06-20T01:37:24Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I had been under the impression (apparently wrongly) that frivolous tourism to the Titanic wreck had been prohibited. This looks impractical / impossible in that the wreck is well outside waters that are under the jurisdiction of any nation. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/52 "2023-06-20T01:45:44Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > They didn’t say the Titanic seemed safe. They said it was unsinkable. Um, yeah … That’s my point. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/53 "2023-06-20T01:47:17Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > This looks impractical / impossible in that the wreck is well outside waters that are under the jurisdiction of any nation. The question of jurisdiction – and the related question of enforcement – is indeed a tricky one, but there has definitely been action on that front. In addition to the 1986 US federal law, there subsequently was the “Agreement Concerning the Shipwrecked Vessel RMS Titanic” negotiated in 2003 among the U.K., the U.S., Canada and France. While jurisdictional questions remain, such laws impact the citizens and residents of those countries as well as vessels operating under their jurisdiction. > **[Titanic Wreckage Now Protected Under U.S.-U.K. Deal That Was Nearly Sunk](https://www.npr.org/2020/01/21/798168753/titanic-wreckage-now-protected-under-u-s-u-k-deal-that-was-nearly-sunk)** > > On Tuesday, British Maritime Minister Nusrat Ghani lauded a 2003 treaty that sat unratified for years but, after approval by the U.S., has recently been dredged from its would-be grave. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/54 "2023-06-20T01:51:35Z")
I hope they pull through by some unlikely miracle but- there shouldn’t be such dangerous tourism in the depths of the ocean any more than we should have tourism in space. These risks should only be taken for scientific research, not to have someone who has nothing better to do with his money have something to boast about. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/55 "2023-06-20T01:53:16Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The failure occurred at 1 hour 45 minutes, which is very close to being at the bottom. Right, that’s why I’m trying to square what the CBS reporter said, who had been on another dive, about no comms when they actually are on a dive. What is the first indication of a problem, if they can’t ordinarily communicate with the submersible? Or maybe I’m not understanding what he reported. Are they able to send and receive text messages at full dive depth do you know? I’m sure we’ll get all the horrifying details soon enough. They seem to be keeping the crew manifest close to the vest for now. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/56 "2023-06-20T01:56:37Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Personally, provided all participants are fully informed of the risks, I’m OK with billionaires taking a ride like this. At least one of the “tourists” on previous dives was a 12 year old child. That company should have been prosecuted for child endangerment. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/57 "2023-06-20T01:57:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > These risks should only be taken for scientific research, not to have someone who has nothing better to do with his money have something to boast about. Why would you care what someone else does with their spare time? I mean, they are probably dead now, but it’s no skin off your nose. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/58 "2023-06-20T02:03:32Z")
> [@3AxisCtrl](#): > > This looks impractical / impossible in that the wreck is well outside waters that are under the jurisdiction of any nation. The treaty cited earlier in this thread is between the UK, the US, Canada and France. That covers a lot of harbours close to the wreck, and the original registration of the ship, and a lot of the likely exploring vessels. If all of those nations in turn pass laws making certain activities illegal with respect to _Titanic_, punishable against: - any ship or crew that leaves from one of their harbours to go to the wreck, or - any ship or crew that comes back to one of their harbours from the wreck, or - is a ship registered in one of those countries, or - is operated by nationals of those countries, some degree of regulation is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/59 "2023-06-20T02:04:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > One possibility is a hull rupture. If the hull failed, everyone in it would die instantly and the thing would sink to the bottom. That would explain no contact, no floating sub. I expect the parent ship would have heard the implosion. The question arises, If it was destroyed will they send another tour sub down to view the wreckage? It does have a Mt Everest vibe to it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/60 "2023-06-20T02:05:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > Surely they’d have one of those locator beacons onboard? > > Maybe maybe not - trying to get a signal through that much water is quite a trick. Though having a beacon for when it surfaces would probably be a good idea. Wouldn’t be of much use if it wound up on the bottom, though. _Of course_ I don’t think the locator beacon would help in locating the submarine if it’s still on the bottom of the ocean. I was replying to someone who suggested that the ship might have surfaced but not able to communicate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781.md?page=4)