# Titanic tourist submarine missing 6-19-2023 (Debris field found, passengers presumed dead. 06-22-23) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 19, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781 "2023-06-19T16:29:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/702 "2023-06-24T02:04:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It’s got to be quite a shock to suddenly discover you’re out of a job. Sort of a sinking feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/703 "2023-06-24T02:10:05Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Sort of a sinking feeling. You are going _straight_ to Hell! _Straight_ to Hell! (I laughed.) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/704 "2023-06-24T02:12:50Z")
It seems that Mr Rush was a bit extravagant with his sales pitch to Jay Bloom: > [@](#): > > “While there’s obviously risk, it’s way safer than flying in a helicopter or even scuba diving,” Rush wrote in one message, asserting that no one had even been hurt aboard a non-military sub in 35 years. and yet in an interview a few years earlier, he referred to that safety record - as a result of regulations: > [@](#): > > Describing the industry in a 2019 interview, Rush said that there had been no injuries in the field for decades, adding: “It’s obscenely safe because they have all these regulations. But it also hasn’t innovated or grown — because they have all these regulations.” Can’t have it both ways: can’t trash the regulsations that have produced a strong safety record, and then cite that safety record in support of the safety of your own submersible that doesn’t meet those safety regulations. > **[Why U.S. investor Jay Bloom turned down seats on the doomed Titanic submersible](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/why-us-investor-jay-bloom-turned-down-seats-doomed-titanic-submersible-2023-06-23/)** > > For a year, Stockton Rush had tried to convince Las Vegas-based investor Jay Bloom to buy a couple of spots on his company's submersible so Bloom and his son could experience the once-in-a-lifetime thrill of visiting the deep-sea wreck of the... > **[The maker of the lost Titan submersible previously complained about strict...](https://www.insider.com/titan-submarine-ceo-complained-about-obscenely-safe-regulations-2023-6)** > > In a 2019 interview about the Titan, OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush lamented the effect of safety regulations on the commercial submersible industry. Mr Bloom also commented on the use of the gamer control as one of the factors taht spooked him: > [@](#): > > Bloom, who has a private helicopter license, was unconvinced. He was particularly worried about Stockton’s use of consumer-grade parts in the Titan – including a video game joystick used to control the vessel – and the novel carbon-fiber hull, and he was “spooked” by the fact that passengers were unable to open the Titan from the inside, even in an emergency. > > “The more I learned about what was going on with Stockton’s operation, the more concerned I got,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/705 "2023-06-24T02:17:20Z")
> [@](#): > > “… we have heard the baseless cries of ‘you are going to kill someone’ way too often. I take this as a serious personal insult.” E-mail from Stockton Rush to a industry insider concerned about the risk of his submersible, March 26, 2018. > **[Titan sub CEO dismissed safety warnings as 'baseless cries', emails show](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65998914)** > > Warnings over the sub's safety were dismissed by OceanGate's CEO, emails seen by the BBC show. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/706 "2023-06-24T02:18:41Z")
I think plaintiffs’ counsel will enjoy doing discovery. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/707 "2023-06-24T02:40:26Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > > > Sort of a sinking feeling. > > You are going _straight_ to Hell! _Straight_ to Hell! (I laughed.) We really are crushing it with the bad submarine jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/708 "2023-06-24T02:57:33Z")
There is a lot of pressure to make sure they don’t sink the thread ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/709 "2023-06-24T03:18:09Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > He had so much passion for the project that he was blinded by it,” Jay said, “He didn’t look at the things that I saw and that others saw that were problematic because it didn’t fit his narrative." Hm. Here’s an interesting thought. Just a couple weeks ago, I went down a quick time sink reading about a (very) failed Norwegian balloon expedition to the Antarctic in the 1890s, a passing reference was made to it in an unrelated discussion. I’d never heard about it. Anyway, their fate was unknown for decades, till their bodies found in the 1930s. A lot of research was done on the events that led up to what was considered almost a comedy of errors - sound familiar? One of the things they found, the expedition leader was under a lot of pressure to perform, because he’d been gifted or borrowed huge sums of money from various sources, lots of fluff pieces and glowing press reports. He had persuaded a bunch of people on his ingenious plan, bought a metric crapton of expensive gear and supplies. Now what? Gonna quit? He then started to ignore a lot of people he should have been listening to. He _should_ have called the whole thing off. But he didn’t. Sound familiar? One wonders if maybe a similar dynamic was involved with Stockton Rush. Was his company highly leveraged, heavily in debt or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/710 "2023-06-24T03:18:10Z")
A sub is _supposed_ to sink. Where this one went wrong was not coming back up. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/711 "2023-06-24T03:26:30Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > A sub is _supposed_ to sink. I have an issue (actually, _all_ of the issues) of [Cutey Bunny comics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutey_Bunny) where the Egyptian Sun God Ra encounters villains in a submarine. Ra, being somewhat dim, yells at them, ‘Sir! Sir! Your barge is sinking!’ ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/712 "2023-06-24T04:02:16Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Like the literary quote that “however big you think space is, it’s bigger than that”, the same thing applies to billionaires’ wealth. Their wealth is so vast compared to ours that expenditures you or I think of as utterly unattainable are pocket change to them. > > Whether the world ought to be organized that way is a separate issue. But it is organized that way now. > > As to what you can see: > Absent headlights, you’d see exactly nothing as you say. With headlights there’d be ghostly views of the prow, with the rest of the ship fading into the blackness. They could drive around and see various other interesting aspects that are already known to the tour guide. Maybe a field of boots, or part of a cabin & associated artifacts that got ejected. Whatever. > > Seriously creepy and not my thing even a little bit. But for somebody excited about the _Titanic_ story, and/or excited about having very rare experiences few people ever can, that would certainly be one of the items on the punch list. Remember that one of these passengers had also spent a hell of a lot more that $250K buying a ride into orbit for a few days Good point. Money is indeed relative, and a billionaire would not even feel a $250,000 expenditure. Prolly a write off of some kind. Bragging rights. Well, if you survive that is. It occurs to me that if this submersible had a “catastrophic implosion” in on itself, it may not have actually come apart. I haven’t read that it did actually. Which could mean the bodies are still inside, squished together like a can of sardines. That would a pretty horrible thing to find if you were the person who had to open it up. ---
**Author:** ![superwombat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superwombat/32/16616_2.png) [@superwombat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/superwombat)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/713 "2023-06-24T04:05:49Z")
One anecdatum: The Logitech F710 wireless controller has a tendency to randomly disconnect from its dongle during use for short-but-usually-critical-in-game periods. It is also sensitive to obstructions between the dongle and the controller. It is a well-known issue in the PC gaming community. I own one of these controllers and can confirm this connectivity issue. It may not have been a primary cause for the sub’s rupture, but may have been a minor contributing factor. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/714 "2023-06-24T04:06:02Z")
nvm, I think I misunderstood something ---
**Author:** ![Latimera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/latimera/32/497_2.png) [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/715 "2023-06-24T04:06:17Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Here’s an interesting thought. Just a couple weeks ago, I went down a quick time sink reading about a (very) failed Norwegian balloon expedition to the Antarctic in the 1890s, a passing reference was made to it in an unrelated discussion. Just for the record, it was a Swedish expedition to the Arctic, not Norwegian to the Antarctic… > **[Andrée's Arctic balloon expedition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9e%27s_Arctic_balloon_expedition)** > > Andrée's Arctic balloon expedition of 1897 was a failed Swedish effort to reach the North Pole, resulting in the deaths of all three expedition members, S. A. Andrée, Knut Frænkel, and Nils Strindberg. Andrée, the first Swedish balloonist\[citation needed\], proposed a voyage by hydrogen balloon from Svalbard to either Russia or Canada, which was to pass, with luck, straight over the North Pole on the way. The scheme was received with patriotic enthusiasm in Sweden, a northern nation that had fal... ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/716 "2023-06-24T04:12:13Z")
> [@Latimera](#): > > Just for the record, it was a Swedish expedition to the Arctic, not Norwegian to the Antarctic… Yeah, yeah, Norway, Sweden. Scandi Icebacks, close enough. /jk ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/717 "2023-06-24T04:29:22Z")
Amundsen was the Norwegian who crashed and disappeared while on an Arctic rescue mission, but that was in 1928. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/718 "2023-06-24T04:54:28Z")
Eh, redacted. Frivolous humor on my part. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/719 "2023-06-24T05:32:33Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > James Cameron is a technically brilliant guy, Why is he wearing a Motocross Jersey in that video? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/720 "2023-06-24T05:38:42Z")
> [@superwombat](#): > > It may not have been a primary cause for the sub’s rupture, but may have been a minor contributing factor. The controller had exactly zero to do with a catastrophic implosion. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2023, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/721 "2023-06-24T06:49:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > Jay noted that Rush flew in on a two-seater experimental plane he built. > > I wondere if it was a Van’s. Huh. You know, if he was coming out of the experimental homebuilt scene in the US to my mind some of the craziness starts to make sense. Rush’s attitudes about building, regulations, and safety are pretty common in that crowd, with a huge difference being the environment the typical homebuilt is operating in is a hell of lot more forgiving than the depths this submersible was going to. > [@Biffster](#): > > It occurs to me that if this submersible had a “catastrophic implosion” in on itself, it may not have actually come apart. I haven’t read that it did actually. Which could mean the bodies are still inside, squished together like a can of sardines. That would a pretty horrible thing to find if you were the person who had to open it up. First, as I believe was discussed earlier in the thread, there are no bodies. The forces involved would have rendered the humans inside into paste or puree or slurry. Second, during the Coast Guard briefing, it was plainly stated that there were at least two debris fields and the submersible was in five relatively large identifiable pieces, with a lot of other bits and fragments around those pieces. Third, James Cameron, who apparently has seen footage of these debris fields, has described the carbon fiber cylinder parts as being broken up into small pieces, at least some of which were mooshed up into one of the titanium end caps. Granted, those last two points were on video so if you’ve been getting your information from print/text you might have missed them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781.md?page=37)