# Titanic tourist submarine missing 6-19-2023 (Debris field found, passengers presumed dead. 06-22-23) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [June 19, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781 "2023-06-19T16:29:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/101 "2023-06-20T10:23:33Z")
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**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/102 "2023-06-20T10:27:15Z")
Moderating: This is getting heated and personal. > [@Princhester](#): > > And what exact difficult and dangerous exercise have you competently completed lately? Or is quarterbacking from an armchair about the extent of it? Please ratchet it down, both of you, and remember to discuss the content, not the commentator. An input appears to have been a PlayStation controller. They may or may not have other methods of controlling the device. Moving on… ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/103 "2023-06-20T10:38:28Z")
This topic was automatically opened after 9 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/104 "2023-06-20T11:53:35Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Moderating: > > This post and the several replies about what kinds of tourism are acceptable risks is a hijack of what’s really a breaking news thread. If y’all want to continue this conversation, start an IMHO thread. (If you want me to start it by moving these posts, drop me a note. But it’s too late as night for me to do it now.) > > Either way, please drop the subject in this thread. Sorry puzzlegal, won’t happen again. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/105 "2023-06-20T13:20:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > A couple of threads from a Navy sub vet about why this sub was a bad idea, and what’s probably happening onboard right now. > > [https://twitter.com/ceparmele/status/1670997982131662848](https://twitter.com/ceparmele/status/1670997982131662848) > > [https://twitter.com/ceparmele/status/1671010206099337216](https://twitter.com/ceparmele/status/1671010206099337216) I have to agree with @Princhester. Nothing in that guy’s self-reported bio suggests he has any special insight into deep-submergence vehicle design. It may be a stupid design, but he’s not the one to be able to say so authoritatively, absent some deeper experience or education beyond being a US Navy submarine vet. > [@Smapti](#): > > And yet, the observable evidence currently indicates that they’re lying on the ocean floor slowly asphyxiating and will likely not be found any time in the foreseeable future. Observable evidence? They’re still missing! For my part, I have my fingers crossed for “if not found, then have been dead since they went missing.” Of course the media is going to report on how many days of oxygen they may have assuming the hull is still in tact: doesn’t mean we have evidence, let alone observable evidence, that they are still alive and facing a cold, dark death as power and oxygen die out. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/106 "2023-06-20T13:50:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > A spacecraft needs to be light, but it doesn’t _need_ to be heavy for 1000 millibars. A submarine can be heavy, but it _has to_ withstand thousands of pounds of pressure. Maintaining less than one atmosphere of pressure in a vacuum is trivial. The only other ‘special’ accommodation for a spacecraft is the heat shield, and those are well-developed. I still contend that it’s easier to build a spacecraft than a No. it’s easier to build a _space crew cabin_ than a _deep sea crew cabin_ but it’s much harder to launch a spacecraft. That’s why any moderately rich person can buy a ticket on a leaky deep-sea tub for $250K, but the fare to ride a spacecraft runs well into the tens of millions. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/107 "2023-06-20T14:00:59Z")
Anything can be a submarine once without much effort. But to even try to be a spacecraft, you need a whole lot of explosives first. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/108 "2023-06-20T14:02:59Z")
Let’s say for the sake (or bourbon) of argument the submersible is resting on the bottom at 12,500 feet down, the crew is for now, safe and alive. How would a rescue be effected? What other types of submersibles or craft that are readily available that could connect a rescue tether or hoist or whatever? Sounds like they are fooked, even if still alive ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/109 "2023-06-20T14:59:08Z")
They have the right equipment. BBC news feed > [@](#): > > BBC News has been speaking to marine scientist and expedition leader David Mearns, who has been keeping a close eye on developments off Newfoundland. > > He tells us that a commercial pipe-laying ship has arrived in the area where the submersible was last reported, and says this is welcome news. > > “Just in the last hour or so… another commercial vessel, a very capable pipe laying vessel, modern ship, with ROV (remotely operated underwater vehicle) capabilities, is actually over the site now and we’re just hoping that it has the capabilities to reach those kind of depths – 3,800 metres – to search for the submersible and have the ability to recover it. > > "There is some hope that that could happen.” ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/110 "2023-06-20T15:41:34Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > According to the BBC, the five people on the sub are: > > Pakistani businessman Shahzada Dawood and his son, Suleman > > Hamish Harding, a 59-year-old British billionaire businessman and explorer > > French explorer Paul-Henry Nargeolet > > and Stockton Rush, chief executive of OceanGate If I was on it, I wouldn’t want the CEO of the company being the guy operating the vessel. Especially one who is quoted as saying “It should be like an elevator, it shouldn’t take a lot of skill.” > **[Titanic expedition firm CEO Stockton Rush insisted mission was 'safe'](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12212757/Titanic-expedition-firms-CEO-Stockton-Rush-insisted-mission-safe.html)** > > Stockton Rush, the CEO of the missing tourist submersible with five people aboard, claimed that he wasn't worried about his expedition and that 'at some point, safety is just pure waste.' ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/111 "2023-06-20T15:47:54Z")
A regular J. Bruce Ismay. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/112 "2023-06-20T16:25:13Z")
Smapti: your video is listed as private. All the submersible has to do is to release the ballast and it will float to the surface. So to me that the reason this hasn’t appeared to happen is that the hull was breached. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/113 "2023-06-20T16:28:38Z")
> [@Common\_Tater](#): > > Let’s say for the sake (or bourbon) of argument the submersible is resting on the bottom at 12,500 feet down, the crew is for now, safe and alive. How would a rescue be effected? What other types of submersibles or craft that are readily available that could connect a rescue tether or hoist or whatever? Sounds like they are fooked, even if still alive Nothing can be done to rescue them at that depth, especially since we’re probably talking 50 hours of oxygen as of right now - maybe less if they are hyperventilating in panic and depleting O2 more rapidly than normal. No rescue subs that currently exist go even half that depth. The only way these people can realistically survive is if they are currently at a shallow depth or floating on the surface and just not yet found, or if they can somehow find some way to un-snag themselves on the seabed or get their ballast out, whatever it is that’s keeping them from getting to the surface. It’s probably about a 99% chance that they’re thoroughly, thoroughly fucked. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/114 "2023-06-20T16:31:38Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > So to me that the reason this hasn’t appeared to happen is that the hull was breached. Unfortunately, I think that’s the most likely scenario at this point. On the other hand, I was listening to news reports on the radio this morning, and it was pointed out that the submersible is not only quite small, but when it’s on the surface, it doesn’t ride particularly high in the water – thus, even if it is on the surface, it’d still be extremely hard to spot from a search plane. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/115 "2023-06-20T16:59:55Z")
I think the odds are they were rapidly crushed to death but there is still some hope they are floating on or near the surface. The details on communication were not clear, but there’s some reason they though communications were lost so they must have been expecting to receive messages on the host ship. I’m amazed if a transponder wasn’t on the vessel just for the case of ascending after losing power. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/116 "2023-06-20T17:04:09Z")
If a cable could somehow be attached to the vessel, could it be pulled up? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/117 "2023-06-20T17:13:46Z")
I think that’s the outside chance they are hoping for. Find the sub, attach a cable, haul it up. I heard someone mentioning even just dragging a cable and goping to snag the sub. This sounds to me like an incredible longshot, but you do what you can while you can and don’t give up until there’s no longer any possibility they are alive. But I suspect that everyone on the rescue knows they are just going through the motions. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/118 "2023-06-20T17:24:17Z")
The cable would have to be guided precisely to be able to latch on to it. Maybe some unmanned submersible with a claw arm could do it. But the missing sub has to first be even found, and then the gear rigged-up/Macgyvered to do so, and with the clock ticking, it’s far likelier that all 5 people first suffocate. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/119 "2023-06-20T18:04:16Z")
The SOSUS system isn’t what it used to be (mostly replaced by mobile platforms now), but I think some of the hydrophones are still in active use for tracking whales and such by research orgs. If there was an explosive decompression of the submersible, I wonder if it would have been picked up? ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781/120 "2023-06-20T18:10:32Z")
Just to be sure, have read this and would like to know if it can be confirmed: this was a sub designed for extreme depth, 4,000 m or almost 13,000 ft, and has no windows, because windows are prone to break at those depths, is that right? The only way to look outside is via a camera, when there is electricity. They could have watched the Titanic just as well from a command centre in the mothership. Or did the sub have one tiny window, with glass thicker than the window is wide, like the [bathysphere](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathysphere)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/titanic-tourist-submarine-missing-6-19-2023-debris-field-found-passengers-presumed-dead-06-22-23/985781.md?page=7)