# TIVO subscription, and alternatives? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 15, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791 "2005-09-15T15:17:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/21 "2005-09-15T17:37:28Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Wait… You need a phone line to run TiVo? So I can’t use TiVo and my computer at the same time? _That’s_ a deal-killer. No, TiVo only needs to connect briefly (via either phone or ethernet) to download updated listings. It usually does this in the middle of the night, and if for some reason you’re using the phone when it tries to do this it’ll just wait and try again the next night. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/22 "2005-09-15T17:38:55Z")
I’m somewhat annoyed by my Tivo. Don’t get me wrong, I love it. but Iwas one of the early converts so my model number is 112 - first generation - and I got a lifetime subscription early on. The first generation doesn’t do all the wireless stuff, doesn’t have folders…everything is phoneline. You can’t transfer your lifetime subscription to a new machine so I would have to shell out for that again if I got a more up-to-date unit. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/23 "2005-09-15T17:42:04Z")
> [@DougC](#): > > At first, people loved Tivo because it would skip commercials automatically for you, and it would record anything you wanted. I heard some time back that they had disabled the ability to skip commercials automatically, and now (something to do with the DCMA or some shit) the broadcasters want to include digital flags restricting your ability to record their shows. This is the 30 second skip function. It doesn’t automatically skip the commercials but it allows you to quickly skip through them with the push of a button. It’s disabled in software but you can add it back with the push of a few [buttons.](http://www.bigmarv.net/how/tivo30secondskip.html) ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/24 "2005-09-15T17:42:46Z")
Hey Johnny, if you’re really intrigued by TiVo, I’m pretty sure they have a 30-day trial period. You can get it, check it out, and send it back within 30 days and get your cash back. Also, I think they’re pretty cheap nowadays. I just read something that said the basic TiVo box has dropped to $50. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/25 "2005-09-15T17:43:28Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > No, TiVo only needs to connect briefly (via either phone or ethernet) to download updated listings. It usually does this in the middle of the night, and if for some reason you’re using the phone when it tries to do this it’ll just wait and try again the next night. The website says that you need a “one-time” phone connection to get it set up. Is that right, or will it want to periodically use the phone line to download listings. If so, what is the broadband connection for? I could handle running a long phone cable to it once for setup, but like I mentioned, my main issue is having to install another permanent jack if TiVo is still going to want to use the phone line despite having the broadband connection. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/26 "2005-09-15T17:47:30Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > I’m somewhat annoyed by my Tivo. Don’t get me wrong, I love it. but Iwas one of the early converts so my model number is 112 - first generation - and I got a lifetime subscription early on. The first generation doesn’t do all the wireless stuff, doesn’t have folders…everything is phoneline. You can’t transfer your lifetime subscription to a new machine so I would have to shell out for that again if I got a more up-to-date unit. I agree about the folders, which is irritating. On the plus side, the video in a series 1 TiVo is unencrypted, allowing you to burn it to DVD, provided you install an ethernet card (either a [CacheCard](http://www.9thtee.com/tivocachecard.htm) or [TurboNet card](http://www.9thtee.com/turbonet.htm)). Once you install an ehternet card, you can also download listings over the internet instead of the phoneline, which is good since my modem died shortly after I installed my CacheCard. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/27 "2005-09-15T17:48:01Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > The website says that you need a “one-time” phone connection to get it set up. Is that right, or will it want to periodically use the phone line to download listings. If so, what is the broadband connection for? If you don’t connect TiVo to a network (broadband router), it will use the phone line every night to download programming data. If you do hook up the network cable, the phone line is only needed for the initial (one-time) setup. ---
**Author:** ![leandroc76](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bb73d2/32.png) [@leandroc76](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leandroc76)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/28 "2005-09-15T17:52:25Z")
I would go with El Gato’s EyeTV. Buy, use it, no fees. I love it. It’s easier than Tivo and you can watch TV while playing Texas holdem! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/29 "2005-09-15T18:09:09Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > The website says that you need a “one-time” phone connection to get it set up. Is that right, or will it want to periodically use the phone line to download listings. If so, what is the broadband connection for? I could handle running a long phone cable to it once for setup, but like I mentioned, my main issue is having to install another permanent jack if TiVo is still going to want to use the phone line despite having the broadband connection. Out of the box, it wants a phone line to do a one-time setup. And it really truly is one-time only - I ran the long wire across the room once, and then unplugged it and the TiVo is completely wireless. Trust me - my nearest phone jack to both my TiVos is across the room. They don’t use it. There’s also a workaround to force it to do the first setup via WiFi. I’m not sure how well this works, but I remember reading about it. ---
**Author:** ![Toddly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@Toddly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toddly)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/30 "2005-09-15T18:11:12Z")
> [@DougC](#): > > - > - > - I have heard of people setting up PC’s like this–mostly in response to Tivo’s (and the like) restrictions they have put in place. At first, people loved Tivo because it would skip commercials automatically for you, and it would record anything you wanted. I heard some time back that they had disabled the ability to skip commercials automatically, and now (something to do with the DCMA or some shit) the broadcasters want to include digital flags restricting your ability to record their shows. > > - I haven’t ever had much interest so I never paid much attention: does your _Windows-based_ setup still skip commercials and record anything you want? Do Tivos still do this? Seems like I have seen people posting of their Linux machines for this–precesely because the Linux machines (running OS/GPL software) have no restrictions on what they can do–but the Linux machines can’t really use the “Tivo” directory service–they get the programming lists from somewhere else apparently, or are just programmed manually what shows to record. > ~ I am not sure about Windows Media Center but I would assume that you must FF through commercials. I use SageTV which is installed on a dedicated PC to record television. There is no monthly fee for the programming schedule and it updates every day. There are a host of software plugins that you can use that will detect commercials and allow you auto skip right through them which works pretty well on most recordings. You also have the ability to set recording quality and can run multiple tuners to record shows at the same time. You should be fairly computer literate though and they have a nice message board for fixing problems and customization. It works really well for us. ---
**Author:** ![Malice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/278dde/32.png) [@Malice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malice)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/31 "2005-09-15T18:46:02Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > You may want to check out ReplayTV. Their business model at the time was a more expensive box and no subscriptions. They got their asses kicked by TiVo so you can see how well that worked. I’m not sure what the deal is with them now. I have two ReplayTV units and from my limited understanding of the Tivo specs, the ReplayTV unit has at least one major advantage and a few minor minor ones: 1. Commercial skip. Major. Before the lawsuit theats from content providers, RTV made units that automatically skipped commericals. These are the ones I have – the 50xx series ones. The feature works about 80% of the time and the 30-second advance lets you skip the rest manually with ease. (I can’t express how cool TV without commercials is. I see _maybe_ one commerical a month, normally because it’s for a movie I want to see). 2+3) No data encryption and ethernet connectivity. Anything I tape, I can export to my computer for editing out commericals and exporting to DVD. Ah, the joys of owning “The Simpsons” and “The Godfather” on DVD legally and for free (well, the cost of cable TV, I guess). 1. DV archive. A free program that lets me use my computer as another ReplayTV for expanded storage or to record shows remotely. 2. Internet video sharing. I can send shows to friends over the ethernet that I taped to other people with ReplayTV units. Cool in concept, but so slow as to be almost unusable. Cost: -$350 with lifetime activation. Month-to-month subscription is $12.95 and new units are something like $150. (Again, some of these features aren’t available with current models, but the 50xx series are always available on E-bay.) ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/32 "2005-09-15T19:02:22Z")
> [@Malice](#): > > 2+3) No data encryption and ethernet connectivity. Anything I tape, I can export to my computer for editing out commericals and exporting to DVD. Ah, the joys of owning “The Simpsons” and “The Godfather” on DVD legally and for free (well, the cost of cable TV, I guess). Ok, so [this](http://www.tivo.com/2.1.2.asp) model from TiVo says: > [@](#): > > Burn your favorite TV shows to DVD so you can take them in the minivan or on the plane. Store them for later viewing — now the kids can watch their favorites again and again. Is the TiVo recording somehow encrypted? Does it work once and then self-destruct? Can you only view it on the same TiVo box that it was recorded on? Will there be Black Helicopters around if I try to share a recorded movie with someone else? ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/33 "2005-09-15T19:15:17Z")
> [@DougC](#): > > - I haven’t ever had much interest so I never paid much attention: does your _Windows-based_ setup still skip commercials and record anything you want? Do Tivos still do this? It does record anything I want. It doesn’t skip commercials per-say, it has a 30 second skip button you press when the commercial comes on. Usually four clicks of the skip button and you’re at the end of the last commercial. If you hit the skip button 5 times you usually have to rewind a few seconds. It is a very handy feature, and not even the reason we bought the computer. We just wanted it for making home movies. The Media Center has lots of features, as many or more than a Tivo unit might have. I can’t think of any features I would like to have that it doesn’t offer. It gets the channel listings off the internet (cable modem connection). Heck, I can even burn copies of shows I want to save. They have to be played back on a Media Center computer, but I’m sure there’s a way around that too. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/34 "2005-09-15T19:21:33Z")
[Yes, you can](http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv1027.htm?) watch one channel while recording another channel on TiVo. ---
**Author:** ![Lips\_Obsession](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bbce88/32.png) [@Lips\_Obsession](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lips_Obsession)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/35 "2005-09-15T19:22:19Z")
As a TiVo user for many years, I’ll try and answer a few of the questions I’ve seen floating around here… I just got my 3rd TiVo unit for $29AR with their recently added $150 rebate. Someone asked about the “no fee” TiVos. Those are the units that offer TiVo Plus, a reduced-feature version of the system. They require no monthly fee. Also, some of the Series 1 units will still work without a subscription, basically like a VCR where you set the time and channel, but none of the “neat” TiVo features will work. The DVD burner TiVos burn DVDs that will play on any DVD player. They have a TiVo-like menu (except for the usually “boop” sound effects). I believe they’re copy-protected, but I’ve had no problems dealing with them on my computer like any other commercial DVD. As far as the networking features of the TiVo, the latest release of the TiVo software, 7.2, now supports setup via ethernet. Prior to 7.2, you had to have regular phone line at least for the set up calls. 7.2 now lets you do even the setup calls over your home network. Be aware, however, that there probably aren’t a lot of boxes in stores yet with 7.2 on them (if any) as it’s still being rolled out to current subscribers. For example, my latest TiVo, which I got about a week ago, had some variety of version 5.x of the software on it when I took it out of the box. It’s since been upgraded to 7.2 via the nightly phonecall. ---
**Author:** ![Malice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/278dde/32.png) [@Malice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malice)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/36 "2005-09-15T19:40:15Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Ok, so [this](http://www.tivo.com/2.1.2.asp) model from TiVo says: > Is the TiVo recording somehow encrypted? Does it work once and then self-destruct? Can you only view it on the same TiVo box that it was recorded on? Will there be Black Helicopters around if I try to share a recorded movie with someone else? I’m sure a Tivo expert will chime in soon, but my understanding Tivo saves all shows as encrypted files, so even if you can transfer them off the system, they can’t be played, and they can’t be edited. The Tivo unit will only decrypt its files to your local TV or to its integrated DVD unit (or another local Tivo unit?), so if your TV show is infected with commericals there’s no way to get rid of them when you archive them to DVD. Commericals on Tivo are like, uh, video herpes? ---
**Author:** ![larsenmtl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d78d45/32.png) [@larsenmtl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/larsenmtl)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/37 "2005-09-15T20:23:23Z")
> [@DougC](#): > > …and now (something to do with the DCMA or some shit) the broadcasters want to include digital flags restricting your ability to record their shows. TiVo claims these flags will prevent you from keeping “OnDemand” recordings and “Pay-per-view” recordings indefinitely and were put in place in response to pressures from the Networks and Cable providers. From what I’ve heard, these flags are controlled by the content provider and not TiVo, so if you ask me it’s opening up a whole mess of problems. > [@DougC](#): > > …they get the programming lists from somewhere else apparently, or are just programmed manually what shows to record. > ~ Most DIY TiVos, get there listings from [www.zap2it.com](http://www.zap2it.com). They used to do screen scrapping of the listings but zap2it now provides an XML feed for non-commercial use. They have recently been threatening to pull this because of abuse. [http://docs.tms.tribune.com/tech/tmsdatadirect/zap2it/open\_letter.html](http://docs.tms.tribune.com/tech/tmsdatadirect/zap2it/open_letter.html) > [@UncleRojelio](#): > > Is the TiVo recording somehow encrypted? Does it work once and then self-destruct? Can you only view it on the same TiVo box that it was recorded on? Will there be Black Helicopters around if I try to share a recorded movie with someone else? TiVo uses it’s own algorithm to encode and decode video to MPEG. Whether or not it’s been cracked, shouldn’t be discussed here. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/38 "2005-09-15T22:47:36Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > I was looking around the TiVo website and was a little peeved that TiVo still seems to require a phone jack. Don’t they have a WiFi version yet? Did I just miss it? I might be up for getting TiVoed, but I’m too lazy to run (yet another) phone line when my WAP is less than 10 feet away. They also don’t seem to let you record two channels at once… is there anyone out there that will let me do that? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/39 "2005-09-15T23:59:40Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > > [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > > > My VCR broke a week or so ago. Still seems to work, but I have a spring and a broken nylon lever lying about. Sounds like TiVo doesn’t do much a VCR can’t. > > I said this before I got a TiVo. My parents said this before I bought them a TiVo. We laugh about it now. TiVo is so much better than having a VCR it’ll blow your mind. Hello. My name is John, and I was once a TiVo doubter. 🙂 Yeah, I said the same thing until I got my DVR (comcast). It sounds corny, but it really \*does \*change the way you watch TV. To the OP: You can buy an off-the-shelf DVR, but they’re pretty expensive: about $600 now. The think I like about leasing mine is that if there’s ever a problem, I just drop it off at the local comcast office, and pick up another one. And I won’t have to buy another one in 3 years when the new models come out-- I’m sure there will be some sort of trade-in, maybe even a no cost swap. That’s the way it worked when I got it in the first place (swap out the old cablebox). ---
**Author:** ![jacobsta811](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jacobsta811/32/2893_2.png) [@jacobsta811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacobsta811)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791/40 "2005-09-16T01:46:39Z")
I have a Tivo (Series 2.5 - originally 40 HR). Cost $99 + $12.95/mo service. Could also have chosen Comcast DVR, for $10/mo service + must maintain digital level service. One of the reasons I choose Tivo over Comcast was that while the comcast DVR is (i believe) also a 40HR-in-low quality box, you can easily upgrade a TIVO hard disk if you are reasonably tech savvy. The newest Tivo’s didn’t have any user-designed software without requiring you to sotter in a chip, but you can still easily upgrade the hard disk. 40hrs might sound like a lot if you have a VCR, but it isn’t - first, you won’t record in Basic quality unless you have a very small TV - otherwise medium is about the minimum, giving you 27-29hrs of TV on a 40hr model. I upgraded to a 120GB disk and have 70+ hrs of TV and I still find myself needing to delete things that I sort of want to keep after a while. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tivo-subscription-and-alternatives/321791.md?page=3)