# TNG episode "The Last Outpost": Ferengi as Bad Asian Stereotypes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 5, 2003, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252 "2003-12-05T22:27:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/21 "2003-12-06T08:05:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Sorry, but if you assign characteristic/racial traits to a ethnicity and then claim an entirely fictional character represents that ethnicity then you have a predilection towards racism. Wtf? This whole jumping on Dooku as being racist for seeing the possibility of racial stereotyping in a TV show isn’t making a whole lot of sense to me. All the things listed are pretty common racial stereotypes of asians, I thought. I always figured the Ferengi were supposed to be jewish, and actually I have many of the same problems that Miller does regarding the simplistic behaviors of the myriad races on Star Trek. The only time any of them have any depth at all (from what I’ve seen, I don’t claim to know a lot about the franchise) is when one of them turns “good” (i.e. sides with the Federation). ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/22 "2003-12-06T08:37:50Z")
Without belaboring the point, I think the OP’s observation of the characterization of Ferengi as de facto Asians is a legitimate one, if unusual and archaic. The stereotypes **Dooku** mentioned – sneaky, lying and manipulative – “Mysterious Orient”, fancy whip-weapons, being short and chauvanistic – are all pretty well reflected in ‘Yellow Peril’ pulps in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. But I agree the ‘only interested in profit’ thing is a stretch when applied to Asians-- that’s a stereotype attributed more to Jewish/Romani. Oh, and **TheQuagmire’s** wrong. Science fiction has a long history of presenting accounts of race and ethnicity and other sources of social conflict in allegory. Plenty of people think that Jar Jar Binks is a warped Stepin Fetchit with a stylized West Indian patois. (And lest I be accused of anti-semitic exclusion, Watto’s a thinly-veiled Jewish Stereotype, too.) SO: Ferengi as wily Asians – at least as seen in the FIRST episode they appeared in? Why not. ASIDE: That Tasha Yar episode was just — arrrgh. I found that episode so unappealing I almost gave up on watching ST:TNG after that. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/23 "2003-12-06T15:29:34Z")
**Barsoom** Tars knows what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/24 "2003-12-06T16:11:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cckerberos \* > \*\*I always saw the races as : > > Federation = Americans > Klingons = Fuedal Japanese > Cardassians = Germans > Bajorans = Israelis > Ferengi = “modern” Japanese/Jews \*\* The Federation is a liberal-leaning Western utopian society. The Klingons are a hodge-podge of “noble warrior” societies. Sometimes Japanese, sometimes mongols, sometimes Spartan, sometimes medieval European. Cardassians in TNG were Isrealis, and Bajorans were Palestinians (opressed, but too often resorting to terrorism). That was pretty damn clear. In DS9, the Cardassians got more evil and the Bajorans more early Isreali-like as they tried to build/restore their society. The Borg aren’t any human society, but an ideal of the collective overcoming teh individual. The Ferengei aren’t supposed to be Jewish, but mostly due to their choice of actors, they come out looking that way. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/25 "2003-12-06T17:20:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\ ***Barsoom** > > Tars knows what I mean. \*\* I’m also with ya, **NoClue**. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/26 "2003-12-06T19:04:55Z")
I always thought of the Ferrengi as a grotesque version of American capitalism, as seen by the East. I understand that the word Ferrengi is based on _Ferrang_ which is the word people in Thailand use for visiting Americans. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/27 "2003-12-06T19:12:24Z")
“Ferrengi” is Arabic for “foreigner”, specifically French/Frankish, going back to the time of the Crusades. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/28 "2003-12-06T19:13:52Z")
I always thought of the Ferrengi as a grotesque version of American capitalism, as seen by the East. I understand that the word Ferrengi is based on _Ferrang_ which is the word people in Thailand use for visiting Americans. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/29 "2003-12-06T20:07:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aesiron \* > \*\*The Romulans live on the planets Romulus and Remus, are ruled by a Praetor, and have ranks in their military that translate as Centurion and you think that they’re _Chinese_? \*\* I’m basing my observation on **TOS** , which is the one I’m most familiar with, and in which the cold-war metaphor is obvious. In that show, Klingons were Russian, and Romulans were another superpower - not the clear enemy, but closer to an enemy than an ally. Romulan dress is very like the stereotypical Chinese proletariat. Vulcans were supposedly very closely related to Romulans, but allowed reason to rule them. Hence Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/30 "2003-12-06T20:08:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*All I’m saying is that none of the things he listed would ever occur to me to be an Asian stereotype. I don’t know, maybe it’s a matter of when/where we were raised, but I would never look at that list and think “Yep, must be a non-so-subtle reference to Asians!” \*\* Someone-or-other asked the question recently: Who is more racist? They guy who sees the army laying siege to Helm’s Deep, and decries the (to him) obvious black stereotyping, or the guy who says “Hey, cool! Orcs!” ---
**Author:** ![myles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/779978/32.png) [@myles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myles)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/31 "2003-12-06T20:20:14Z")
Why would the Vulcans be Japanese? The Vulcans are “logical”, and logic is an invention of Classical Greece, for example, Aristotle. In what way are the Vulcans Japanese? ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/32 "2003-12-06T21:39:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \* > \*\*FWIW, I am sorry for upsetting you. That was my first reaction because I just don’t recognize any of the things you listed as an “asian” stereotype. > > Regardles of my reasoning, however, it was an inappropriate thing to post and I apologize. \*\* Thanks for this. It means alot to me, and I sincerely appreciate it. **Miller** and **Askia** explained better than I did what I was trying to say about the Asian stereotypes. The “only interested in profit” thing was certainly more prevalent in the late 80’s - Rising Sun and all that. Also remember I’m only talking about their appearance in this first episode, where they were presented rather differently from the way they are now. And I see no point in responding to **TheQuagmire** ’s buffoonish troll post. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/33 "2003-12-07T00:53:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrotherCadfael \* > \*\*Someone-or-other asked the question recently: Who is more racist? They guy who sees the army laying siege to Helm’s Deep, and decries the (to him) obvious black stereotyping, or the guy who says “Hey, cool! Orcs!” \*\* Neither. The guy seeing black stereotypes in the orcs is simply more sensitive to racism. In this case, I would argue over-sensitive. But to say that seeing racist stereotypes in a work of fantasy makes the observer himself a racist is an intensely stupid proposition. Unless, of course, you’re talking about [this](http://vanguardnewsnetwork.com/movie75.htm) idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252/34 "2003-12-07T03:13:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bup \* > \*\*I’m basing my observation on **TOS** , which is the one I’m most familiar with, and in which the cold-war metaphor is obvious. > > In that show, Klingons were Russian, and Romulans were another superpower - not the clear enemy, but closer to an enemy than an ally. > > Romulan dress is very like the stereotypical Chinese proletariat. Vulcans were supposedly very closely related to Romulans, but allowed reason to rule them. Hence Japanese. \*\* No. The Vulcans, as a race of stoics and philosophers, are obviously Greek. Their cousins and cultural descendants, the Romulans, are Romans and the Federation at large, whom they helped bring civilization to, is obviously the modern Western world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-episode-the-last-outpost-ferengi-as-bad-asian-stereotypes/217252.md?page=1)