# TNG vs DS9: Ferengi and Trill continuity problems, Data, and generic starships **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 3, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883 "2005-01-03T19:56:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/21 "2005-01-04T03:20:14Z")
I’m pretty sure the reason Quark doesn’t have a headdress is because they’re supposed to be military headdresses. I can’t remember where I got that, though. Anyway, the reason they went back on the military thing is it made it easier to create makeup for secondary/tertiary/bit Ferengi - because it meant they didn’t need to do a full head piece. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/22 "2005-01-04T05:02:59Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > The Ferengi name comes from Farsi, if I remember right. I heard it comes from ‘Ferang’ which is what the people of Thailand call American tourists. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/23 "2005-01-04T06:38:27Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > And Kira’s hot, yes, but not the hottest. As much as I have to come to love her in the past year, she’s still no Ezri or Hoshi. And if semi-regs are included, no Leeta either. She’s definitely hotter than the overrated Jadzia, Seven, and T’Pol though. Unfortunately, I stopped watching (involuntarily) after about the 4th season of DS9 and second season of Voyager, so I’ve never seen Ezri, Hoshi or T’Pol. I’ve seen pictures of Seven on the Internet, but she didn’t do anything for me. Jadzia was certainly beautiful, but she was clearly _supposed_ to be the show’s sex symbol. Thus, she was beautiful in that “standard American beauty” way that I despise so much. She looked like a Cosmo girl, and I don’t like Cosmo girls. Didn’t she start out on some cop show with female cops who looked like supermodels? And Leeta… well, I loved her face, but those gigantic breasts were a turnoff for me. Counsellor Troi never really did it for me, either. But there was an Ensign or Lieutenant Gomez on the Enterprise who was quite hot. And Kes was cute. ---
**Author:** ![WilhelmGefallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@WilhelmGefallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilhelmGefallen)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/24 "2005-01-04T09:58:22Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > More troubling is the difference in the makeup schemes (different races of trill?) and the degree of “Blending” of the personalities. (Odan’s symbiont completely took over Riker, and claimed to be the same Odan in his new female body, while Jadzia and later Ezri emphasize that each host brings something to the joined personality). Then there’s also the DS9 episode Rejoined, where we learn joined trills are supposed to avoid rekindling romances from previous hosts. Yet, that’s exaxtly what Odan tries to do. Hmmmm, theres probably some fan-fic out there where the Trill are actually the descendants of the Goa’uld/Tokra and hence you have the differences in blending. TNG/DS9 is set what 300 years after SG1? if you have SG1 wipe out most of both species they may need to go into the witness relocation program as the Trill ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/25 "2005-01-04T12:50:08Z")
> [@WilhelmGefallen](#): > > Hmmmm, theres probably some fan-fic out there where the Trill are actually the descendants of the Goa’uld/Tokra and hence you have the differences in blending. > > TNG/DS9 is set what 300 years after SG1? if you have SG1 wipe out most of both species they may need to go into the witness relocation program as the Trill Well, they’d have to end up destroying the entire Stargate network. There’s a bigger problem, however: we’ve seen both the Goa’uld/Tokra and the Trill symbiotes, and they look quite diffrent. Trills, IIRC, are very slug-like in appearance, while Goa’uld are much more snake-like. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/26 "2005-01-04T16:17:25Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > Anyway, I remember seeing a similar Ferengi headdress explanation - that it hid the prosthetic seam along the back of the neck - might’ve been in the DS9 Companion book IIRC… The one I heard was that there was a miscommunication between the makeup and costume people about where the costume ended and the prosthetic began. They didn’t realize it until they put on the costume, and you could see the back of the actors’ heads. Someone grabbed a bit of cloth and a staple gun and, viola, it was fixed. Looks like there’s as many versions of this story as the Nigerian Banking Spam. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/27 "2005-01-04T16:49:09Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > I heard it comes from ‘Ferang’ which is what the people of Thailand call American tourists. Which itself came to Thailand through Arabic, actually. Ferangi, feranji, franji, etc., were names the Arabs gave the Crusaders. It’s the Arabic transliteration of “Frank; Frenchman”. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/28 "2005-01-04T19:32:39Z")
Learn something new every day. ---
**Author:** ![WilhelmGefallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9f8e36/32.png) [@WilhelmGefallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WilhelmGefallen)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/29 "2005-01-05T00:13:32Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Well, they’d have to end up destroying the entire Stargate network. They’ve killed a whole bunch of them already, so only a few thousand more. With Jack in command its not really too much of a problem. Jack: I dont like the look of those plants, lets nuke’em Te’alc: Indeed! > [@](#): > > There’s a bigger problem, however: we’ve seen both the Goa’uld/Tokra and the Trill symbiotes, and they look quite diffrent. Trills, IIRC, are very slug-like in appearance, while Goa’uld are much more snake-like. Ahh ok that would actually be a problem then, I couldnt get into the first few seasons of DS9 it was too much like a monster of the week version of Babylon 5 with Technobabble and no arc or interesting characters, and its been years since I saw TNG. DS9 picked up by the end though, so I may watch it on DVD at some point ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/30 "2005-01-05T00:54:06Z")
I was more irritated that the ferengi completely went from brutal commerce raiders who nearly took out the Federation flagship to complete cowards. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2005, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/31 "2005-01-08T23:50:58Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > Fine, but I hereby claim Mirror Universe Jadzia for myself. 😛 > > … That’s fine, because I really want the _Mirror_ Kira myself. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Binari0010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Binari0010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binari0010)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/32 "2016-05-03T16:42:09Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > No. This was a pilot, and the producers didn’t even know if NBC would pay for a series. When TOS series went into production, the intent was to ditch the original pilot, and in the production series they decided to make Spock logical. That logical part wasn’t thought of when that first pilot was made. > > Then someone got the idea to save money and incorporate the original pilot in a 2 part episode to save money. Continuity errors be damned. During the Pilot (The Cage) Spock was supposed to be an emotional Martian, that was why he screamed the commands and information and smiled, but as they developed his character. Remember, we hadn’t landed on the moon yet and people believed that little green men lived on Mars. Spock was supposed to be a big Green Man. Slightly greenish, not green like the Orions. They decided to change him to a Vulcan, because you couldn’t terraform and colonize Mars with a native species on the planet. This would also allow for first contact to be in the future with Warp Capability and not when we rocket over to Mars in Chemical Rockets. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/33 "2016-05-03T17:01:11Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > And just an observation – Major Kira was, without a doubt, the hottest female regular character in any of the ST series. _Sigh_ The Duras Sisters would like to have a word with you. ---
**Author:** ![Binari0010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Binari0010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binari0010)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/34 "2016-05-03T17:09:43Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Yup, that’s the ship. Off the top of my head, I think those alien women in “The Game” (the episode with the luscious Ashley Judd as Lt. Robin Lefler getting her first onscreen kiss from Wesley Crusher) were also using the same ship design. > She has used Starfleet transporters any number of times 🙂 Other answers here sound reasonable - transporters were adjusted, or the Dax symbiont was simply more hardy. > Well, in the case of Riker Odan, the takeover was necessary to accomplish the negotiations, since Riker knew none of the details. And of course, Riker didn’t host the symbiont long enough for the personalities to blend. Also, Riker was weakened by hosting the symbiont, so probably wasn’t strong enough to prevent Odan from taking over. I also suspect that the taboo against reassociation may only apply to Trill/Trill relationships. There didn’t seem to be any problem with Sisko resuming his close friendship with Dax, though of course theirs wasn’t a romantic relationship. > > Another thing that’s been bugging me: What is that thing called that the Ferengi wear on the back of their heads? And why doesn’t Quark wear one? I guess Quark leaves it off because Grand Nagus Zek leaves it off - Quark once mentioned that he had modeled himself after the Nagus… > > And just an observation – Major Kira was, without a doubt, the hottest female regular character in any of the ST series. _Sigh_ Odan, said that the body was just a host. The TNG Trill completely takeover the Host as opposed to blending like the DS9 Trill. There are explanations in both the comics and novels. Including, one that the Trill were exposed to the virus caused by the Klingons when they tried to use Eugenics to erase the Human advantage in speed and skill by this. I however, have a different theory given the differences in the Trill, both the host and the symbiont; the joining and transport differences; also based on how the Trill were changed by DS9 team from the TNG team. I believe the Trill were originally like those of Odan with the ridges and all, and that they totally overwhelmed the host. At one point in history either Kriosian refugees or colonists arrived in Trill for one reason or another, the original symbionts had to be implanted on the Kriosians, perhaps some plague that lowered the population of the original Trill. As the symbionts, merged with the Kriosians they evolved and developed the empathic abilities that the Kirions had to telepathic abilities. The Kriosians themselves also evolved to become better hosts and their spots changed. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/35 "2016-05-03T21:24:35Z")
FTR, the two-parter “The Menagerie” was cobbled together because the production crew had fallen seriously behind schedule and would otherwise have failed to deliver an episode at some point. No way would more than an hour of previously unaired footage have been left to sit in a vault gathering dust. Spock was given a cooly efficient, “logical” persona once the character of “Number One” was dropped from the series (i.e., after the first pilot was rejected). And all that BS about the Ferengi is pure propaganda! Federation propaganda, you hear?!?\* \*(Actually, they were intended to replace the Klingons as the main bad guys on _ **TNG** _, a dumb idea that failed miserably once they started jumping around like chimpanzees in their debut episode.) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/36 "2016-05-03T21:32:47Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > 3 - Data. Somewhere around the fourth or fifth season, Data mentions that he has been in Starfleet for twenty-six years. A major character point was that Data desperately wanted to become human. In the first season, we saw an android severely lacking in human characteristics. He became more and more human as the TNG series progressed. So why did he make such dramatic progress in the seven years of TNG, but almost no progress in his previous 18 - 20 years in Starfleet? Picard. He’s _that_ good. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/37 "2016-05-03T22:11:01Z")
Zombie thread. Or maybe it’s the Borg PRETENDING to be zombies. After checking a couple wikis, it doesn’t look like Data’s pre-Enterprise career was clearly described. However, everybody’s career seems to just stop once they get on board the Enterprise. Incidentally, it would have been an interesting idea to actually show characters getting promotions over the course of the series. It made a good subplot to see Worf’s growth on DS9. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/38 "2016-05-03T23:19:46Z")
Data spent his three years as an ensign and his twelve years as a lieutenant assembling widgets in a cubicle on some Godforsaken planet, a task for which he was eminently suited. This left him with something of an autistic personality that it would take another twelve years to partially overcome. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/39 "2016-05-03T23:55:13Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Zombie thread. Or maybe it’s the Borg PRETENDING to be zombies. > > After checking a couple wikis, it doesn’t look like Data’s pre-Enterprise career was clearly described. However, everybody’s career seems to just stop once they get on board the Enterprise. Incidentally, it would have been an interesting idea to actually show characters getting promotions over the course of the series. It made a good subplot to see Worf’s growth on DS9. LaForge got promoted a couple times. And Troi got promoted in season 7, but remained in the same job. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/40 "2016-05-04T00:28:16Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > The Duras Sisters would like to have a word with you. Those butterfaces? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883.md?page=3)