# TNG vs DS9: Ferengi and Trill continuity problems, Data, and generic starships **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 3, 2005, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883 "2005-01-03T19:56:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/41 "2016-05-04T03:28:51Z")
> [@Ephemera](#): > > The Ferengi name comes from Farsi, if I remember right, and that might have influenced their costuming since Persians are stereotyped as all being turbaned. > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I heard it comes from ‘Ferang’ which is what the people of Thailand call American tourists. _Ferengi_ and _farang_ both come from the same source. As I’ve detailed elsewhere on the Board, it actually comes from – believe it or not – Charlemagne, but the mode of transfer is open to question. What is known for sure is that on Christmas Day, AD 800, Charlemagne crowned himself emperor of all the Christians. This caused a big laugh in the Byzantine Empire, which began referring to all West Europeans as “those crazy Franks,” or French. That much is pretty well agreed. How it got to Thailand, or Siam, comes in two main versions. One is that the term made it along the Silk Road to China, where instead of using it to refer to West Europeans only, it was used for all Europeans. Since China had been actively sailing throughout the region, even to East Africa, the Malays and Thais probably picked it up from them. This version, espoused by the historian JM Roberts, is the one I tend to believe, because when the first Portuguese appeared off the coast of China during the Age of Discovery, the Chinese referred to them by their version of the word. The other main story is that the Muslim traders brought it with them as they ventured East. There are variations on both of these. The Thais are taught in school – or at least used to be – that it was because the French were the first Westerners with a significant diplomatic presence in the kingdom, in the 17th century. But that’s not true. The Portuguese beat the French by a good 100 years, followed closely by the Dutch. Then the French. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/42 "2016-05-04T19:18:01Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Data spent his three years as an ensign and his twelve years as a lieutenant assembling widgets in a cubicle on some Godforsaken planet, a task for which he was eminently suited. This left him with something of an autistic personality that it would take another twelve years to partially overcome. I think it was established that Data went to the Academy, but he never talked about his previous assignments, so you might be right. Or they might have put him on some airless world since Federation officers hate using spacesuits. They should really have brought back the force field spacesuits they used in TAS - that is reasonable technology and you’d still be able to see the actors’s faces. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/43 "2016-05-04T19:21:35Z")
> [@Binari0010](#): > > During the Pilot (The Cage) Spock was supposed to be an emotional Martian, that was why he screamed the commands and information and smiled, but as they developed his character. Remember, we hadn’t landed on the moon yet and people believed that little green men lived on Mars. Spock was supposed to be a big Green Man. Slightly greenish, not green like the Orions. They decided to change him to a Vulcan, because you couldn’t terraform and colonize Mars with a native species on the planet. This would also allow for first contact to be in the future with Warp Capability and not when we rocket over to Mars in Chemical Rockets. While the early sketches had Spock as half Martian, I don’t recall that ever being mentioned in The Cage, and certainly not in Menagerie. As for the shouting, Nimoy does some shouting in the episodes filmed very early, but he got over it by the time they filmed the salt monster one which was shown first. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/44 "2016-05-04T20:11:09Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I think it was established that Data went to the Academy, but he never talked about his previous assignments, so you might be right. Or they might have put him on some airless world since Federation officers hate using spacesuits. They should really have brought back the force field spacesuits they used in TAS - that is reasonable technology and you’d still be able to see the actors’s faces. Refresh my memory here: Didn’t they have those in “The Naked Now,” when they were on board the _Tsyolkovskii_? Or were they in environmental suits? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/45 "2016-05-04T20:13:37Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Nimoy does some shouting in the episodes filmed very early, but he got over it by the time they filmed the salt monster one which was shown first. _“Shoot it, Doctor! It’s killing the Captain!”_ :eek: ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/46 "2016-05-04T20:24:43Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > The Duras Sisters would like to have a word with you. The Duras Sisters bring up another issue. In **Star Trek VI** Azetbur succeeds her father as Chancellor of the Klingon High Council with any mention of her sex, but by TNG women can’t even sit on the High Council or head a House let alone be Chancellor. Clearly she must have screwed up big time, but it’s a little annoying this never explained in canon (especially given how much time DS9 spent on Klingon subplots). But we did get a canon explanation for the forehead issue :rolleyes:. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/47 "2016-05-06T00:02:16Z")
Alexander sure had a hell of a growth spurt between TNG and DS9, didn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Vorlon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@The\_Vorlon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Vorlon)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/48 "2016-05-06T00:16:04Z")
The space ships are easy to fanwank–a small subsidiary of General Products. Not only does it tie to Niven, but if some author is brave there is always the General Products #4 hull. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/49 "2016-05-06T00:49:56Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The Duras Sisters bring up another issue. In **Star Trek VI** Azetbur succeeds her father as Chancellor of the Klingon High Council with any mention of her sex, but by TNG women can’t even sit on the High Council or head a House let alone be Chancellor. Worse than that. We actually saw a woman on the council at Worf’s Discommendation, and Gowron offered such a seat to another woman without a second thought. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/50 "2016-05-06T00:57:42Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Alexander sure had a hell of a growth spurt between TNG and DS9, didn’t he? Yeah, so what? Klingons grow up more quickly than Humans do. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/51 "2016-05-06T01:41:59Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > And just an observation – Major Kira was, without a doubt, the hottest female regular character in any of the ST series. _Sigh_ Go back to the pilot episode. She’s much more vulture-like in appearance. I think they softened her up after that or a few episodes. But you know, the oh, other network show which, very strangely, Deep Space 9 seems to share a lot of names and other similarities with… Also buried an attractive woman under a lot of makeup and prosthetics and then softened her up as the show went on. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/52 "2016-05-06T02:05:11Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > But you know, the oh, other network show which, very strangely, Deep Space 9 seems to share a lot of names and other similarities with… Also buried an attractive woman under a lot of makeup and prosthetics and then softened her up as the show went on. 😉 I’m not sure which show you mean. In fact, who are you? And what do you want? Mars (who has always been here) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/53 "2016-05-06T02:09:53Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Refresh my memory here: Didn’t they have those in “The Naked Now,” when they were on board the _Tsyolkovskii_? Or were they in environmental suits? 😕 [No suits](http://www.missionlogpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/098.jpg), but I don’t remember anything about force fields either. Not sure if that’s better or worse than the [suits they wore in the original.](http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/6500000/The-Naked-Time-star-trek-the-original-series-6571142-694-530.jpg) Yeah, that’s a super air-tight seal you’ve got on that helmet there, Spock. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/54 "2016-05-06T03:10:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > [No suits](http://www.missionlogpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/098.jpg), but I don’t remember anything about force fields either. Not sure if that’s better or worse than the [suits they wore in the original.](http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/6500000/The-Naked-Time-star-trek-the-original-series-6571142-694-530.jpg) Yeah, that’s a super air-tight seal you’ve got on that helmet there, Spock. They must have had some kind of protection on the _Tsyolkovskii_, since (IIRC) the hatches had been blown and the internal atmosphere lost. In _ **TOS** _, I always assumed there was some kind of force field at work in the environmental suits as well, both in the cheapos they had in “The Naked Time” and the more sophisticated ones in “The Tholian Web.” ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/55 "2016-05-06T03:34:33Z")
Nah, they had closed the open hatch and repressurized, since the ship wasn’t under vacuum. Also, only a small part of the vessel was breached like that anyway. The Enterprise crew just straight up walked into it and assumed they were safe, just like all the other times. This seems to be a big thing in Starfleet for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/56 "2016-05-06T03:37:03Z")
Also the Klingons on TOS and TNG look nothing alike! :eek: I think some people just want a cookie because they noticed something. Yeah the continuity has not been perfect, but they’ve done pretty well compared to most shows. And in some cases I’m fine with it being a conscious decision e.g. “The ferengi didn’t work as fearsome adversaries; they came off as too camp. But if we scrub the part about them being violent, and tone down the acting, they would be perfect for DS9. Rather than shelve the species forevermore let’s just do that as few people are going to remember or care about their TNG appearance” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/57 "2016-05-06T03:49:54Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Nah, they had closed the open hatch and repressurized, since the ship wasn’t under vacuum. Also, only a small part of the vessel was breached like that anyway. The Enterprise crew just straight up walked into it and assumed they were safe, just like all the other times. > > This seems to be a big thing in Starfleet for some reason. I haven’t seen the episode for more than 15 years, but I seem to recall Data standing next to an open hatch with stars in the background and the ship’s commissioning plaque (in Russian) mounted on the wall. Of course, Data’s an android and can survive in a vacuum, so he wouldn’t have needed an environmental suit anyway. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/58 "2016-05-06T16:46:05Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I haven’t seen the episode for more than 15 years, but I seem to recall Data standing next to an open hatch with stars in the background and the ship’s commissioning plaque (in Russian) mounted on the wall. I saw it last week. He did, and he was talking to other people. No environmental suits and no invisible personal forcefields. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/59 "2016-05-06T19:24:55Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I saw it last week. He did, and he was talking to other people. No environmental suits and no invisible personal forcefields. Uhmmm … sound doesn’t travel through the vacuum of space. How was he talking to others without some kind of force field? 😕 Does he have vocal cords (which wouldn’t work in vacuum either), or some kind of synthesizer linked to the communicator system? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2016, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883/60 "2016-05-06T22:47:57Z")
SO, I brought the episode up. It’s actually not clear how much of the ship is in vacuum. But there was no damage to anything. Some of the crew just stuck a hatch open. The Enterprise team wander around a bunch of the ship at will, so it couldn’t have been a large section, and some of them were just looking at the spot on a monitor. According to the wiki, only the bridge was affected. Then the Enterprise go back to their own ship, and take no precautions whatsoever when Geordi gets sick. Their “isolation” is to have him lie down in sickbay with no restraint or even somebody watching him. They were shocked - _shocked_ - when the man who can’t think straight failed to obey proper quarantine protocols. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-vs-ds9-ferengi-and-trill-continuity-problems-data-and-generic-starships/282883.md?page=4)