# TNG: why didn't starfleet develop cloaking technology? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 22, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087 "2010-06-22T03:15:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2010, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/81 "2010-06-26T23:20:36Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > More than that, currency is one of the great innovations in human history, single-handedly driving progress forward by leaps and bounds. Elimintaing currency entirely is as moronic as eliminating writing. You voted for Bush, right? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/82 "2010-06-28T21:56:25Z")
Cloaking technology is fleeting. Maybe the Feds realised this. This week, we have a wokable cloak. Then the bad guys figure out hoe to detect one of our ships using that model. So we have to reinvest more resources and time to develope and newer, better version. Then they crack that, too. Ad nauseum. Maybe it was an arms race the Feds decided not to get wrapped up in. Of course, the same could be said about shields, too… In other words: never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/83 "2010-06-29T01:05:19Z")
“Military secrets are the most fleeting of all,” said Spock in TOS “The _Enterprise_ Incident.” ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/84 "2010-06-29T01:08:28Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > More than that, currency is one of the great innovations in human history, single-handedly driving progress forward by leaps and bounds. Elimintaing currency entirely is as moronic as eliminating writing. Well, that would be one of the most logical applications of a wish machine, e.g. the replicator. Given the nearly unlimited amounts of energy necessary to run their engines, I wouldn’t be surprised if a replicator was incorporated into the design. What would be the point of having currency or gold if a machine could just make some on demand? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/85 "2010-07-01T00:35:53Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You voted for Bush, right? > > 🙂 No, I’m a liberal. (Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama) I’d be a blind moron not to see the value of currency in society. I believe injecting politics in Cafe Society is against the rules. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/86 "2010-07-01T09:45:38Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I remember the Maquis guy who does a Jake Holman act while the rest of the guys escape complaining about the taste of replicated food, but what else can’t be replicated? > > Can latinum be beamed from one place to another? Sure. And that’s not weird–we have an example of that all the time: replicators cannot produce living matter. (Unfortunately, I can’t find the episode that states this.) ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/87 "2010-07-01T10:04:52Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Sure. And that’s not weird–we have an example of that all the time: replicators cannot produce living matter. (Unfortunately, I can’t find the episode that states this.) Aren’t transporters just [giant replicators](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transporter_%28Star_Trek%29) for living matter? “Whenever a person or object is transported, the machine creates a memory file of the pattern. This has been used at least once in every Star Trek series to revert people adversely affected by a transport to their original state…The transporter is susceptible to unusual anomalies and environmental conditions that can cause unexpected results. An unknown magnetic ore created a physical duplicate of Captain Kirk (TOS “The Enemy Within”) and an enhanced beam attempting to transport Lt. Riker through an unstable atmosphere created a physical duplicate that remained undiscovered on the planet’s surface for eight years.” ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/88 "2010-07-01T11:51:30Z")
The flying holodeck in Insurrection had a cloaking device. It was a Starfleet ship. > [@](#): > > More than that, currency is one of the great innovations in human history, single-handedly driving progress forward by leaps and bounds. Elimintaing currency entirely is as moronic as eliminating writing. Perhaps they just meant the actual, physical form of currency. In three to four hundred years the notion of carrying around a bunch of pieces of paper which represent one’s wealth is probably going to be quaint at best. The Federation runs on a credit-based economy and there are several vague references to it throughout the shows. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/89 "2010-07-01T13:19:41Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > More than that, currency is one of the great innovations in human history, single-handedly driving progress forward by leaps and bounds. Elimintaing currency entirely is as moronic as eliminating writing. And replacing it with just talking and having a computer record it. No-one in starfleet does handwriting. Replicators also can’t make energy, so batteries yes, but only flat ones. So no replicating convenient phasers whenever you need one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/90 "2010-07-01T13:36:58Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > The flying holodeck in Insurrection had a cloaking device. It was a Starfleet ship. If you have holodeck technology, you can make a cloak-like illusion by projecting a false image of the surroundings. This could fool passersby, but maybe starship sensor technology has more acuity, especially in the non-visible EM bands. They also detect those fancy schmancy subatomic particles that get thrown around in the treknobabble. So it’s like comparing a Stealth bomber to a duck blind. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/91 "2010-07-01T13:37:21Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > And replacing it with just talking and having a computer record it. No-one in starfleet does handwriting. > > Replicators also can’t make energy, so batteries yes, but only flat ones. So no replicating convenient phasers whenever you need one. Wasn’t there an episode of DS9 where (I think) the station’s guerilla defense program was accidentally tripped and it replicated a phaser, and then powered it up? (Or possibly it was the one where Sisko and a select group remained on board after it was handed back over to a revolutionary Bajoran government and played guerilla war.) I can remember one of the Nit-Pickers’ Guides talking about that scene. ETA: It did this as a sort of booby trap. The phaser was replicated, powered up, then fired around the room randomly. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/92 "2010-07-01T14:42:15Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Wasn’t there an episode of DS9 where (I think) the station’s guerilla defense program was accidentally tripped and it replicated a phaser, and then powered it up? (Or possibly it was the one where Sisko and a select group remained on board after it was handed back over to a revolutionary Bajoran government and played guerilla war.) I can remember one of the Nit-Pickers’ Guides talking about that scene. > > ETA: It did this as a sort of booby trap. The phaser was replicated, powered up, then fired around the room randomly. [Civil Defense](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Civil_Defense_%28episode%29). ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/93 "2010-07-02T06:01:40Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Sure. And that’s not weird–we have an example of that all the time: replicators cannot produce living matter. (Unfortunately, I can’t find the episode that states this.) But the main use of replicators is to make food, which is organic. I wonder what differentiates a green salad from living matter? ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/94 "2010-07-03T08:11:14Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > If you have holodeck technology, you can make a cloak-like illusion by projecting a false image of the surroundings. This could fool passersby, but maybe starship sensor technology has more acuity, especially in the non-visible EM bands. They also detect those fancy schmancy subatomic particles that get thrown around in the treknobabble. > > So it’s like comparing a Stealth bomber to a duck blind. There was a duck blind in the movie as well, which used the principle you mention here, a holographic projection of fake rocks. Since the Baku didn’t have any kind of sophisticated scanners they had no idea they had been duped. The flying holodeck had an actual no-shit cloaking device. Shipboard sensors didn’t detect it. It was only detected when Data swam/walked right up to it with a tricorder. IIRC Data didn’t even detect the ship but rather the disturbance in the water caused by it being there. So the cloak, regardless of origin, was obviously a sophisticated one. I will grant that Starfleet ships probably don’t routinely scan for cloaked vessels in lakes but if the holoship was emitting in any particular way they should have detected it from orbit. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087/95 "2010-07-03T13:36:08Z")
Good point. I had not seen the movie recently so I didn’t remember that. I’ll concede to your point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tng-why-didnt-starfleet-develop-cloaking-technology/544087.md?page=4)