# To All Holier-Than-Thou Christians **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 9, 2002, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631 "2002-09-09T11:32:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/61 "2002-09-11T23:15:27Z")
**His4Ever** : Your words are turning people off from Christianity. You are doing more harm to your cause with every word you type. Your God is a God of hate and vengeance, and is unworthy of anyone’s worship. ---
**Author:** ![LolaBaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@LolaBaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LolaBaby)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/62 "2002-09-11T23:20:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\* > > I’m not judging individual people but their behavior. Why is it judging to repeat what God says? If He says something is wrong then it’s wrong. If He says idolators, fornicators, abusers of themselves with mankind, etc. won’t inherit the kindgdom of heaven, why is it judging to simply repeat what He says? I’m not making it up. Love means telling people the truth in love even when it’s unpopular. How are Christians to answer Him when He asks why we didn’t warn people? Love is uttermost, yes, and Christians need to lead people to Christ but does that mean we’re to say nothing at all about right and wrong? I don’t think so. \*\* You’re judging people. You’re telling people they are going to hell. Who died and made YOU God? At any rate, I agree with **cj** , no one is going to agree but I just hope you’re really happy that you probably turned off 32946326 people to God. Have a nice life and beyond, Lois 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2002, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/63 "2002-09-11T23:36:18Z")
HIS4EVER – > [@](#): > > I’m not judging individual people but their behavior. That’s a pretty fine line. And where in the Bible does it say you are authorized to do _either_? > [@](#): > > Why is it judging to repeat what God says? If He says something is wrong then it’s wrong. Because you do not _know_ what “God says.” You only know your _own interpretation_ of what God says. And it differs greatly from the interpretations others have of it. **YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND THEY ARE WRONG.** How could you know that? So kindly stop parroting “God says this, God says that;” for the NT, at least, you’re talking about what _Paul_ says, and Paul is not God. You may believe that every word in the Bible is the word of God, and not of fallible men, but I (and many others) do _not_. And you have no proof, and no reason to think, that you are right and the rest of us are wrong. So don’t be so arrogant as to tell me what “God says.” I think I _know_ what God says – and it isn’t what you say He says. > [@](#): > > Love means telling people the truth in love even when it’s unpopular. Baloney. If your statement alienates people from God, makes them feel worthless and beyond the reach of His love and His grace, then you do not do His will in saying it. And it is not – **NOT** – said in love. > [@](#): > > How are Christians to answer Him when He asks why we didn’t warn people? **HE DOES NOT ASK YOU TO WARN PEOPLE. HE ASKS YOU TO LOVE PEOPLE.** You are the best witness to the grace of God when you are a living embodiment of His love. You do not have to do, or say, or believe anything that you deep down believe is morally wrong, but you should not judge the decisions of others to do or say or believe otherwise. Because you do **NOT** have some key to the heart or mind or will of God that is not available to the rest of us > [@](#): > > Love is uttermost, yes, and Christians need to lead people to Christ but does that mean we’re to say nothing at all about right and wrong? I don’t think so. You witness to upright and moral living by living an upright and moral life, as it is given to you to understand it. It is not for you to decide what is “right” or “wrong” as a moral matter for anyone except yourself. And, frankly, if you’re working at it, that ought to keep you plenty busy – certainly too busy to sit in unauthorized and unwanted judgment on your brothers and sisters. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/64 "2002-09-12T00:03:42Z")
**His4ever** , though he would probably shrug off this comparison, look at why people admire and respect **Polycarp** , at least on this board (as my experiences at the Pizza Parlor have been very brief). He believes in God. He believes certain things are sinful and others are not. His message is of unconditional love 99.99999 percent of the time. He recognizes that it is not his job to point out the sawdust in another’s eye while ignoring the growing forest in his own. He recognizes that the Christian who walks the walk is a far more effective witness to God’s message than the one who seeks to convert everyone and point to all their sinful activities. See what differences there are between how you attempt to do God’s work and what he does. Or what **Tris** does, or people like that. Read the Gospels and see just how often Jesus hung out with, had meals with, etc, the lowest of the low (for the time) and didn’t go on and on talking about how their lives were full of sin. yet when people were about to reign down earthly judgment for sin, what did he do? He asked for those **without sin** to be the ones to determine punishment. And then he, being without sin, told the woman, whose guilt up to that point had not even been determined (saying someone has committed adultery does not mean they have done so), to go and sin no more. His punishment to her, from everything I have read, was those words. Not “You will burn in hell for the choice you have made”. Not “The Bible says you are an abomination”. But “Don’t do it again”. Note that you, being not without sin, do not have the place to say such. And I daresay that one who looked at your message as one of love and of a loving belief in God and that He will take care of you would actually be driven _from_ this God. Your statement “Love means telling people the truth in love even when it’s unpopular” is similar to the title of a recent MPSIMS thread “unspeakable truths” which was more “really rude, unfounded, and in some cases wrong and assholish opinions” than anything. “Love consists of doing God’s work with a smile” is a quote often attributed to Mother Theresa. God’s work consists of bringing people to Him and making them _want_ to follow His rules. At the very least, your interpretation of the former as it relates to the Bible is very much off, and you are doing the polar opposite of the latter. I feel no more compelled by you to follow this God than I do by Jack Chick or Pat Robertson. Look at those who are respected here and elsewhere (in terms of religious beliefs) and ask yourself what they are doing that you are not. More often than not, the answer will be “Their message is of the love of God”. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/65 "2002-09-12T00:15:24Z")
**Sparc** : Don’t hold your breath. **His4ever** only ever seems to reply to one in 10 or 20 posts addressed to him/her. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/66 "2002-09-12T00:31:25Z")
Well, hey-I have problems with Papal Infalibility (that is, if you’re talking about _ex cathedra_, since the Pope himself is NOT infallible.) There’s a lot of problems I have with the church, which is probably why I’m not currently a practicing Catholic, and I sort of have Unitarian Universalist leanings. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/67 "2002-09-12T00:33:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > **Why is it judging to repeat what God says? If He says something is wrong then it’s wrong. … I’m not making it up.** Given the huge number of Christian sects that can take the very same Words in the very same Book and interpret from them a mind-boggling variety of beliefs and practices, I’m perfectly content to believe that you are, at least to some degree, making it up yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/68 "2002-09-12T00:40:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\* I’m not currently a practicing Catholic, and I sort of have Unitarian Universalist leanings. \*\* Join with us! Joiiiiiiiinnnnnn wiiiiiiiiiith ussssssss!!! > [@](#): > > Sometimes its better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness. > –Terry Pratchett ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/69 "2002-09-12T00:42:01Z")
**cjhoworth** > [@](#): > > Because by repeating certain passages and not others, you are not repeating His entire Word, you are repeating the portions of His Word which you consider important. I think I’m going to start putting together a “How to Be A Loving Christian on the SDMB” guide and that’s going to be on the first page 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/70 "2002-09-12T00:46:19Z")
Gosh … me and Guin (separating ourselves from the RCC and possibly the Christian Church as a whole) … who else is next? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/71 "2002-09-12T00:51:37Z")
Do you have wafers and booze? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/72 "2002-09-12T01:03:28Z")
By the time His4ever’s actually answers all that we have put to her, we will al have won the lottery. And i have booze, byt no wafers. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/73 "2002-09-12T01:29:22Z")
Come join the Episcopal church – no Pope, but we do have booze, wafers, and a kind of cool new Archbishop! Oh, and **anya marie** , that’s fine by me – I could use the money. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/74 "2002-09-12T02:52:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > **Do you have wafers and booze?** Not on hand, but if you want to have wafers and booze, then by gum, we’ll have wafers and booze! ---
**Author:** ![lynn73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@lynn73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynn73)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/75 "2002-09-12T16:08:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sparc \* > \*\ ***His4ever**! I asked you a question as pertains to this in the HD thread started by Polycarp in regards specific passages in the Bible. Until you have answered that I hold you in contempt of this board and will presume that you are either a troll, or a complete moron, or both. Until you have answered my query in that thread, since it attacks the very fundament of your constant defense, I also request that you hold your tongue on these issues. > > Sparc \*\* Whatever you say, Sparc. I’m weary of this debate. The only reason I posted in GD was to answer Polycarp’s questions. I assumed he was taking a poll and that’s all. I didn’t want to be bombarded with umpteen dozens of questions all over again. Everyone will never agree on this topic, that’s the way it is. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/76 "2002-09-12T16:39:44Z")
Then don’t debate homosexuality – that’s not what I started this thread for. I have asked you specific questions. Please answer them. CJ ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/77 "2002-09-12T17:06:23Z")
**Guin** - Not often; but we do have several kick-ass potlucks during the year wherein we have crackers and booze. Is that close enough? 😉 _Coooommmmmme to the Daaaaark Siiiiiide._ ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2002, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/78 "2002-09-12T17:17:48Z")
H4E, You seem to think that Christianity includes the belief that truth is the most important thing. According to one proponent of Christianity, there are only three things in the all the world that last, and truth is not one of the three. If Christ Himself would not answer when asked, “What is truth?” you will have to understand, I am reluctant to accept your authority on the subject. But perhaps Christ’s message is not what you follow. Christ Himself is a much harder role model to follow than Jack Chick. Quick, H4E, love someone! Your life depends on it. You may well think that your message was loving, but you have to take the word of those who heard it, that is not the message they received. People think you hate them, and they think you think Jesus hates them too. This is what you and your message have done for the Lord. Whatever you intended to do, you have sown hatred in the name of Christ, and now the field is ripe. As you have sown, so shall you reap. And to our lasting sorrow, so too shall the innocent reap. And people who cannot stop themselves from speaking their own condemnation on the Lords behalf will drive away His beloved children from the fellowship of believers. I do not believe it will succeed in driving them away from Him, of course, because the Love of God is greater than all things. Jesus will save every soul that will be saved. If He lets gay people into heaven, do you still want to come? Tris ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/79 "2002-09-13T03:50:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iampunha \* > \*\*Gosh … me and Guin (separating ourselves from the RCC and possibly the Christian Church as a whole) … who else is next? \*\* Well, I would say “I’m next,” except that unless the available pictures are a) antiques or b) heavily doctored, my “falling away” happened before either of you were born. But if you’ll accept an old codger–that’s the “nice” term–I’m game! Perhaps we could form a “wafer and marching” society? Oh, and just for the record, I lean more toward Taoism. But not enough to produce a noticeable list. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2002, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631/80 "2002-09-13T03:57:18Z")
OTTO, I like your style. And I’m not saying that just because you’re in Tacoma. 🙂 Jodi (Seattle) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-holier-than-thou-christians/127631.md?page=5)