# To all Obama apologists on the economy. You need to go fuck yourself today. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 10, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390 "2012-04-10T18:01:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/161 "2012-04-12T20:06:47Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > No, it wasn’t. It was directed to the people who say it **is recovering** under Obama: > > Bolding mine in all cases. > > Verb tense is important. I haven’t heard a soul claim that the economy **has recovered** yet. We’re not back to a normal economy; we’re a long way from it, unfortunately. > > But it [is demonstrably improving](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/all-measures-of-unemployment-are-falling/2011/08/25/gIQAX5U5tQ_blog.html), just a lot more slowly than we’d like. > > And we Dems would like to speed up our return to a healthy economy, but in the words of Stephen Stills, we’re getting “so much resistance from behind.” > > Right now, we’re in a situation where there really is such a thing as a free lunch, but the GOP doesn’t want us to eat it. > > Take infrastructure spending. Nationwide, there are trillions of dollars of infrastructure projects that will have to be done sooner or later: this money will eventually be spent if we want to continue to claim to be a first-world country. > > And the cheapest time to spend it is now: > > 1. The Federal government can borrow money now at rates we’re unlikely to see again. > 2. Because people are out of work, labor costs are lower than they’ve been and are likely to be. > 3. Since demand for everything is low, raw materials (excluding gasoline) are cheap to purchase, equipment rental is cheap, etc. > > So we would save a bunch of money by doing any infrastructure maintenance and improvements now that we’d have done now or in the next several years if the economy was in good shape. AND we don’t crowd out other use of the same resources, because everything from money to workers to asphalt are lying idle. > > And by putting people to work, we’d be putting money in their pockets, which they’d spend, which would increase the demand for the things they buy, which would put other people back to work, and you get a nice virtuous cycle going. > > And we’d be saving money over the long haul, even before we factored in the fact that those people we put back to work would pay taxes into the Treasury. So the workers would be better off, the Federal deficit/debt situation would be better over the medium term, etc. > > It’s fucking win-win-win. But the GOP wants us to lose, lose, lose. > > Friends don’t let friends vote Republican. I used to say that jokingly, but now I’m dead serious. Whatever their motives, this is a party that’s acting in an evil and destructive manner. Thanks very much for this clear and concise explanation of our present situation. Very well done, sir. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/162 "2012-04-12T20:14:49Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Thanks very much for this clear and concise explanation of our present situation. Very well done, sir. You’re quite welcome. I can’t say it was a _fun_ post to write, but there’s a certain satisfaction and release in harnessing one’s knowledge to a pent-up fury. You know how the cultural conservatives are always talking about ‘taking their country back’? Fuck 'em. It’s our country too, they’ve gotten to play with it far too much over the past 30+ years, and by God we’re taking it back from them, and with any luck we’ll even take some of it back from the 0.1% who play those yahoos like a fiddle. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/163 "2012-04-12T20:34:02Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > You’re quite welcome. I can’t say it was a _fun_ post to write, but there’s a certain satisfaction and release in harnessing one’s knowledge to a pent-up fury. > > You know how the cultural conservatives are always talking about ‘taking their country back’? Fuck 'em. It’s our country too, they’ve gotten to play with it far too much over the past 30+ years, and by God we’re taking it back from them, and with any luck we’ll even take some of it back from the 0.1% who play those yahoos like a fiddle. It’s my country too. No one is taking a damn thing from me. Back or otherwise. “They” had it for 8 years and it turned all to shit. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/164 "2012-04-12T21:23:02Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s interesting the particular level of stupid you’re able to bring. There is so much you don’t understand, it’s intermeshing in this clockwork of nonsense. > > Okay, thought experiment. Say **Person A** is removing a pile of sandbags. He’s doing it very slowly, but he gets one or two put into the garbage chute. Right at the end of his shift, a sandbag truck overturns and increases the pile of sandbags to like 5 times its previous size. > > Now **Person B** is hired to get rid of all these sandbags. He gets rid of them way faster than the first guy. In fact he spends some money on a wheelbarrow, that lets him do it faster still. > > You do understand that Person B can be doing a better job than Person A even though there are more sandbags than there were before the truck overturned, right? > > I mean you can’t be so stupid that you think Person B needs to have the sandbags down to where they were before the truck overturned to be said to be doing a better job, can you? You missed the part where Person A’s friends cut a hole in the wheel barrow so Person A wouldn’t look so bad. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/165 "2012-04-12T21:54:34Z")
They would probably point out that Obama is stealing all that sand. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/166 "2012-04-12T22:20:03Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Forget it, Fear Itself, it’s ralphrandomnumbers. > > Seriously, he’s one of those people who make me embarrassed on behalf of humanity. Hey, that’s unfair. Ralph Wiggums is the king of geniuses on the conservative side of this board. Just because he pulls all of his numbers out of his ass doesn’t mean that his hands stink, Ralph’s shithooks smell due to the odor of Obama’s policies! ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/167 "2012-04-13T12:00:56Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The Earned Income Tax Credit was enacted under Gerald Ford (R) with bipartisan support, and expanded under Ronald Reagan (R), with bipartisan support. I know the concept of bipartisanship is foreign to you, but there was a time, a long time ago, when Republicans based their policies on what was good for the country as a whole, instead of what was good for the special interests to whom they owed fealty. Thanks for the history lesson but… what’s that got to do with the Democrat solution to this mess: stonger unions, unemployment as far as the eye can see and more and more handouts? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/168 "2012-04-13T12:20:19Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Thanks for the history lesson but… what’s that got to do with the Democrat solution to this mess: stonger unions, unemployment as far as the eye can see and more and more handouts? Why should it have anything to do with anything but the EITC? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/169 "2012-04-13T14:50:05Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Thanks for the history lesson but… what’s that got to do with the Democrat solution to this mess: stonger unions, unemployment as far as the eye can see and more and more handouts? Ohhh, the strawman game! Can I play? … It’s better than the Republican solution, which is tax cuts, unemployment as far as the eye can see and more and more pain and sorrow to 99% of the country. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/170 "2012-04-13T17:09:50Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Thanks for the history lesson but… what’s that got to do with the Democrat solution to this mess: stonger unions, unemployment as far as the eye can see and more and more handouts? Here’s a history lesson for you. Since FDR unemployment has been lower at the end of a Republican’s term or Democrat’s term in the White House by a large margin? Name the one exception. The largest handouts by the Federal Government in history took place during the financial crisis of 2008. What President asked Congress to immediately hand out nearly a trillion dollars to what institutions too large to fail. Hint: it wasn’t unions that were the institutions, and it was Hank Paulson’s boss. Time’s up. Republican presidents leave unemployment at twice the rate that Democratic presidents do on a consistent basis. The exception was Jimmy Carter. Bonus question: which party’s presidents run up bigger deficits starting since the Reagan era? Name the exception. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/171 "2012-04-14T00:50:54Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > I don’t blame Obama for the mess he inherited. I do blame him for the mess that is attributable to him, however. He certainly kept the Bush bailout/checkbook solution philosophy alive and well. I just have to jump in here with this because it’s so utterly devoid of any knowledge of economics and how recessions, and particularly balance sheet recessions, work. [Richard Koo: The Ratings Agencies May Destroy The Global Economy Once Again](http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-koo-the-ratings-agencies-may-destroy-the-global-economy-once-again-2011-8) "[E]xperiences demonstrate that during a balance sheet recession, when businesses and households are struggling to deleverage, the correct policy—fiscal stimulus—is exactly the opposite of what is needed under normal circumstances. **Active application of stimulus will ultimately minimize the fiscal deficit.** [AUSTERITY DOESN’T SHRINK THE DEFICIT IN A BALANCE SHEET RECESSION…](http://pragcap.com/austerity-doesnt-shrink-the-debt-in-a-balance-sheet-recession) ``` "Despite the continuing woes in Europe there are still people out there who think the USA should cut off its arm in order lose weight. Well, that’s not quite how it works during a balance sheet recession. During a balance sheet recession the reduction in private sector aggregate demand leaves a hole in the economy. As we know from the sectoral balances, someone must spend because the private sector’s savings (which they now demand due to high debt levels) must come from the foreign sector or the government sector. It doesn’t just magically appear out of nowhere. **And if the government folds up shop we get what is happening in Greece.** The latest news shows that austerity is failing miserably." ``` And Richard Koo is out with a [“Brand New Presentation On The Global Economic Crisis”](http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-koo-the-world-in-balance-sheet-recession-2012-4) complete with pretty little charts and graphs that prove definitively that austerity is flat out wrong and what we needed was much, much more stimulus. Lose the partisan talking points from your thinking and study the economic facts. The country will be better for it. As for the OP, you’re an idiot. The party _you_ prop up is entirely responsible for decimating jobs in education and yet you blame the party who’s been fighting against that for years now. Sorry buddy, but you got exactly what you deserved by voting for the fuckers who _told_ you that’s exactly what they were going to do if you put them in office. What, you think they didn’t mean _you_, but some other guy, like a “democrat union thug” so that was okay with you? Suck on it. Maybe next time you’ll believe these assholes when they tell you that they want to destroy this country’s education system, our environmental protections, our voting rights and every other right they can strip from us, recognize that it isn’t just “other people” who suffer from those draconian policies, and start supporting the party who actually gives a fuck about human beings for once. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/172 "2012-04-14T00:55:10Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Here’s a history lesson for you. Since FDR unemployment has been lower at the end of a Republican’s term or Democrat’s term in the White House by a large margin? Name the one exception. > > The largest handouts by the Federal Government in history took place during the financial crisis of 2008. What President asked Congress to immediately hand out nearly a trillion dollars to what institutions too large to fail. Hint: it wasn’t unions that were the institutions, and it was Hank Paulson’s boss. > > Time’s up. Republican presidents leave unemployment at twice the rate that Democratic presidents do on a consistent basis. The exception was Jimmy Carter. > > Bonus question: which party’s presidents run up bigger deficits starting since the Reagan era? Name the exception. Wait. Sorry. I’m lost with your post. I think I’m agreeing with you, but I’m not certain. Let me spell this out either way: Democratic President Truman left 2.5 percent unemployment to Eisenhower. Republican President Eisenhower left recession and 6.5 percent unemployment to Kennedy. Democratic President Johnson left 3.5 percent unemployment to Nixon. Republican President Ford left recession and 7.5 unemployment to Jimmy Carter. Democratic President Carter wasn’t able to improve much on the recession he inherited and neither were Republican Presidents Reagan and Bush, who left recession and 7.2 unemployment to Bill Clinton. Democratic President Bill Clinton left 4.2 percent unemployment to Dubya Republican President Dubya left recession and 7.6 percent unemployment to Democratic President Barack Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/173 "2012-04-14T01:03:49Z")
Also? Here’s GDP Growth: Democratic Presidents Kennedy/Johnson 4.8 % average annual GDP Growth. Democratic President Truman 3.8% Democratic President Clinton 3.7% Republican President Reagan 3.4% Democratic President Carter 3.3% Republican President Eisenhower 2.9% Republican President Nixon/Ford 2.8% Republican President GW Bush 2.2% Republican President GHW Bush 2.1% And then there’s the holy grail of the Right, the stock market: Republican President Herbert Hoover -90% Thats MINUS 90%. The Dow lost 9/10ths of it’s value at the end of the Gilded Age. Democratic Presidents FDR/TRuman +525% From 41 to 290. Republican President Eisenhower +120% From 290 to 630. Democratic Presidents Kennedy/Johnson +51% From 630 to 950 Republican Presidents Nixon/Ford +2% From 950 to 970 Democratic President Carter +3% From 970 to 1000 Republican Presidents Reagan/Bush +244% From 1000 to 2440 Democratic President Clinton +264% From 2440 to 9880 Republican President GW Bush -25% From 9880 to 7600 Democratic President Barack Obama +68% From 7600 to 12800 Anyone who thinks the economy — by _any_ measure — does better under Republicans than Democrats hasn’t been paying attention to reality, but falling for lies fed to them by their party puppet-masters. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/174 "2012-04-14T09:25:29Z")
Interesting challenge - find an economic metric where the last five Republican presidents overall did better than the last five Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/175 "2012-04-14T13:44:34Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > As for the OP, you’re an idiot. The party _you_ prop up is entirely responsible for decimating jobs in education and yet you blame the party who’s been fighting against that for years now. Sorry buddy, but you got exactly what you deserved by voting for the fuckers who _told_ you that’s exactly what they were going to do if you put them in office. What, you think they didn’t mean _you_, but some other guy, like a “democrat union thug” so that was okay with you? Suck on it. Maybe next time you’ll believe these assholes when they tell you that they want to destroy this country’s education system, our environmental protections, our voting rights and every other right they can strip from us, recognize that it isn’t just “other people” who suffer from those draconian policies, and start supporting the party who actually gives a fuck about human beings for once. QFT. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/176 "2012-04-14T20:19:42Z")
One also must remember, the first 12 months of a new admin are left over effects of the previous admin. Consider it takes a good 9 months for a POTUS to get his admin in place. So to see the true factors of the numbers previous posted, I would like to see start and end dates. If youre just picking from the days a POTUS takes office, your figures in terms of responsibility for effect are not accurate ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/177 "2012-04-14T23:11:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Interesting challenge - find an economic metric where the last five Republican presidents overall did better than the last five Democrats. Corporate profits? CEO salaries? ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/178 "2012-04-15T00:06:22Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > So to see the true factors of the numbers previous posted, I would like to see start and end dates. Not trying to snark, but if you’d like to see those numbers, why don’t you compile them and post them? ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/179 "2012-04-15T00:38:08Z")
Time … Since they obviously had the time, and knowledge of the information, it seems an easy task for them to overlap the years You see, Bush takes the heat (and I am no fan of W) for the poor market that was a direct result of 9/11 Bush had all of what, a month to stop it? Clinton had his whole 8 years, and Daddy Bush made Osama bin Laden who he was. W brought the market back in his 8 years from a fiscal calamity. Liars figure, and figures lie. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390/180 "2012-04-15T00:43:38Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Bush had all of what, a month to stop it? Please show your work. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-obama-apologists-on-the-economy-you-need-to-go-fuck-yourself-today/618390.md?page=10)