# To all of us who despair of ever getting fiction published... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 13, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358 "2009-03-13T18:54:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/1 "2009-03-13T18:54:57Z")
…because we wonder if we’re good enough–take heart. [This](http://vandonovan.livejournal.com/1088311.html) got published. (the link goes to a Livejournal page, but on it is a scan of two pages from a published novel). Read it and weep. Or laugh. Or join the author and do something entirely inexplicable. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/2 "2009-03-13T19:05:30Z")
Oh, lordy. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/3 "2009-03-13T19:06:30Z")
I couldn’t get past the third paragraph. What happens? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/4 "2009-03-13T19:14:49Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > What happens? No, it doesn’t. But the author provides a list of things to which you should never compare various body parts of your lover, like tongue = a ferret, or thighs = geese, pythons, or schooners. Or in another way I guess it’s like the old SAT analogies section gone bad: 1. Pubes are to pomegranite as: a) Feet :: driftwood b) Nipples :: morels c) Sex :: scarab d) Neck :: alfalfa e) Breasts :: cheese ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/5 "2009-03-13T19:16:19Z")
I couldn’t get past the description of her tongue as “a fox caught in the teeth of a tiger”, which made me slightly ill. So I skipped to the bottom of the second page, where the dude says to Bronwyn, “You are quite beautiful, Princess Bronwyn.” Which kind of surprised me. She sounds grotesque. It actually reminds me, just a bit, of “The Eye of Argon” all grown up. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/6 "2009-03-13T19:25:17Z")
I’m actually trying to get non-fiction published, so every [one of these](http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/novel-spawned-from-falsified-holocaust-memoir-will-be-published/?scp=2&sq=holocaust%20memoir&st=cse) [or these](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/sports/baseball/03book.html?scp=1&sq=baseball%20memoir&st=cse)is like a punch in the groin. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/7 "2009-03-13T19:50:20Z")
Dear gods… At least I’m in the right genre to take advantage of these [del]idiots[/del] [del]suckers[/del] publishers. ---
**Author:** ![Jayn\_Newell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jayn\_Newell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayn_Newell)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/8 "2009-03-13T20:35:15Z")
My first thought was someone has read too much Tolkein…though JRR is just boring to read, unlike this which is also painful. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/9 "2009-03-13T21:24:31Z")
My fingers type the cherries of absinthe, caress the plastic molding that drips in the autumn light of butterflies, of plankton, of the hum of Hermes’ forge and Cassandra’s forgetfulness; the sans-serif lettering that keens the sirens and omits the kerns; the invertebrate osmosis of the chesterfield, puce and cerise under triple suns of banter and woodwinds. I hit Submit Reply. I hear the sound of yellow and the taste of freedom. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/10 "2009-03-13T21:54:34Z")
“Her pubes were a field of wheat after the harvest…”? Her “pubes?” Her _frickin’ pubes?!?_ ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/11 "2009-03-13T22:02:07Z")
I don’t find that encouraging at all, because it proves that it’s not how good you are, it’s who you know and the connections you have. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/12 "2009-03-13T22:10:41Z")
Dear God. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/13 "2009-03-13T23:33:00Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > My fingers type the cherries of absinthe, caress the plastic molding that drips in the autumn light of butterflies, of plankton, of the hum of Hermes’ forge and Cassandra’s forgetfulness; the sans-serif lettering that keens the sirens and omits the kerns; the invertebrate osmosis of the chesterfield, puce and cerise under triple suns of banter and woodwinds. I hit Submit Reply. I hear the sound of yellow and the taste of freedom. This is much better than the exerpt. It has a rhythm. I could dance to this. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/14 "2009-03-14T01:06:25Z")
Reassuringly, according to the LiveJournal post, it’s not published, it’s vanity published. Whole different thing. Everyone in the universe, including house pets, is good enough to be vanity published. It has nothing at all to do with ‘who you know and the connections you have’. Assuming you can Google ‘publisher’ and pick one from the selection of vanity houses that pop up ready to take your dough, you’ve got all the necessary connections. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/15 "2009-03-14T01:28:54Z")
The current release may be from a vanity publisher, but the original release was not. From the link… > [@](#): > > My copy was published in 1992 by “Ace Fantasy” but it appears it was reissued by a vanity press later, ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/16 "2009-03-14T01:53:20Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > “Her pubes were a field of wheat after the harvest…”? Her “pubes?” Her _frickin’ pubes?!?_ Maybe they meant her furrow was fallow. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/17 "2009-03-14T01:55:27Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > I don’t find that encouraging at all, because it proves that it’s not how good you are, it’s who you know and the connections you have. So go to New York and fuck somebody, already. And remember, it’s just as easy to love a big publisher as it is to love a small publisher. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/18 "2009-03-14T02:26:58Z")
[Obligatory _Atlanta Nights_ link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Nights) > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Atlanta Nights is a collaborative novel created by a group of science fiction and fantasy authors, with the express purpose of producing a bad piece of work of unpublishable quality to test whether publishing firm PublishAmerica would still accept it. It was accepted, but after the hoax was revealed, the publisher withdrew its offer, and the book was not published at that time. > > The primary purpose of the exercise was to test PublishAmerica’s claims to be a “traditional publisher” which would only accept high-quality manuscripts. Critics have long claimed that PublishAmerica is actually a vanity press which pays no special attention to the sales potential of the books they publish since most of their revenue comes from the authors rather than book buyers. PublishAmerica had previously made some highly derogatory public remarks about science fiction and fantasy writers, because many of their critics came from those communities; those derogatory remarks have influenced the decision to make such a public test of PublishAmerica’s claims. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/19 "2009-03-14T02:34:00Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > So go to New York and fuck somebody, already. And remember, it’s just as easy to love a big publisher as it is to love a small publisher. You just roll them around in flour and look for the wet spot? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358/20 "2009-03-14T02:59:03Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > Reassuringly, according to the LiveJournal post, it’s not published, it’s vanity published. As far as I can tell, that’s simply wrong. The reprinter, Timberwolf Press, is (or was, I don’t see an active link for it) a small press that did a lot of sf, fantasy, audiobooks and other things for a variety of authors. I can’t find any reason to insult Timberwolf with the name vanity press. The book may be awful but Ron Miller, as an artist, is a huge name in the sf world. Reprinting a legitimately published book by an author guaranteed to sell books is not a bad deal for any small press. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-of-us-who-despair-of-ever-getting-fiction-published/489358.md?page=2)