# To all the december-bashers... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 11, 2003, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147 "2003-06-11T16:51:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/81 "2003-06-12T17:32:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > color me both unsurprised … **grieny** that you don’t see/understand why **december’s** posts in that thread were so offensive. What exactly are you implying. Should I be taking offence at your characterization of my ability to comprehend? Also, I was merely responding to the quoted example. I abhor reading a \*\*December \*\* thread. > [@](#): > > Suffice it to say that I was offended, deeply so. And others saw the offense (on both sides of the political equation), **december** acknowledged that he didn’t intend the offense, the fact that you don’t agree doesn’t make it all go away. there’s still some folks that tell **Esprix** that he ‘shouldn’t be offended/bent out of shape’ for folks using the word ‘gay’ to mean ‘lame’ etc. I don’t think it is fair of you to make a comparison of clear offences to an oppressed minority with a perceived offence from someone who’s manner and views do not fit in with your moral code. > [@](#): > > So, you’ll continue to defend **december** , not seeing that he’s **as offensive** to some of us as **Col** is to you. Do you see me running into most of **Collounsbury’s** threads and harrassing him? My posts (with one exception ) expressing offence at his ad hominems relate to his conduct in GD, a forum which I believe should allow even the timid to express their views. I’m on the record acknowledging **Collounsbury’s** valuable contributions to this community. > [@](#): > > I don’t take offense easily (or at least I don’t think I do). I generally (notice the word **generally** ) don’t attack personally, or at least I don’t **often** get people yelling at me for my nasty tactics, words etc. Folks disagree w/me all the time, but I’m not normally one that gets repeated chastisments from other posters, staff etc. I suggest that if that sort of thing happens a lot, perhaps, theres’ some level of justification in the complaint, even if you personally do not see the insult/problem. Well the repeated hassling that I see **December** getting seems more akin to what I remember high school being like for a few social misfits who are the targets of certain members of the in crowd who continually subject these loners to derision and ridicule. I never said anything then, but I feel obligated to speak up now. Now to be clear, I accept your opinions to be legitimate, however I’m speaking to the whole SDMB contingent of December bashers as a group. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/82 "2003-06-12T17:51:20Z")
what the fuck? **grieny** You (IMHO) have some pretty thick blinders on wrt **december** himself if you cannot see any valid reason to complain about him - hell even folks who don’t get riled about him can see that. If you choose to take offense that I posted I was unimpressed and unsurprised at your continued lack of understanding that folks may have valid complaints about him - shrug . Do with this as you will. shrug. wrt: > [@](#): > > Do you see me running into most of Collounsbury’s threads and harrassing him are you accusing me of this behavior? sounds like ‘stalking’ **december** ,?? If so, post specific examples or retract. wrt: > [@](#): > > I don’t think it is fair of you to make a comparison of clear offences to an oppressed minority with a perceived offence from someone who’s manner and views do not fit in with your moral code. ?? spare me. what the fuck are you talking about “manner/views do not fit in with my moral code”? I’ve **specifically compained** about being called a bigot either directly in the one case or indirectly in the other. On this board,certainly, that’s a serious insult, and I take it so IRL as well. as does **december** (or so it would seem, since he bridled the one time IIRC, that some one suggested that he was a bigot). So, it would seem that it also is w/in his ‘moral code’ to take offense at being accused of bigotry. It certainly it not uncommon here. so your comment makes no sense in context. I’ve also complained specifically about his debate tactics. That’s certainly fair game here. So, as far as I’m concerned, my specific complaints about him are based on his **actions/words** , not his beliefs, that I have valid criticisms, that I verbalize them in an appropriate manner and place. All of which is totally within the rules both in letter and in spirit of this board. if you have specific evidence that I am doing anything of a ‘harassing’ nature, anything that is against the rules (either in letter or in spirit) of this board, then bring it on. Otherwise, leave me the fuck out of whatever gripe you may have about people who complain about **december** ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/83 "2003-06-12T18:03:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > the one time IIRC, that some one suggested that he was a bigot A truly amazing statement. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/84 "2003-06-12T18:26:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > Bull fucking shit, and nice racist type aside as well. You accused me of complaining of him because of his **political views** , not because of how often he does OP’s. That’s quite the selective memory you have there. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > RE: the fact he posts OP’s - if you’d done a search of my writings on the subject of this man, you’d have noticed that I’ve personally suggested that he gets more pit threads _partially_ 'cause of the fact that he posts OP’s more than most. BUt, it **wasn’t** what you accused me of in the first place. Yes. It was. Here is what I said: > [@](#): > > _by debaser_ > It was stated by someone the last time this topic came up that it’s really rather simple. December is a conservative poster on a liberal board **who starts a lot of threads.** He is bound to get flamed often. > > Those that are complaining about some imaginary insulting demeanor of his just don’t like his politics. There are dozens of posters much worse than him who don’t get the same wrath because they aren’t a conservative **who starts threads constantly.** Bolding added. So, I did in fact accuse you of that. You just missed it somehow, or are choosing to ignore it. Also, I would like to mention that I never mentioned you by name. I didn’t have anyone specifically in mind when I said that, just the herd of **december** bashers in general. Anways, your claims that **december** is “demeaning, insulting, disrespectful” are just silly. He simply isn’t. Despite his many pittings and GD drive-by’s **december** is one of the most polite posters on the SDMB. This is obvious to anyone not blinded by thier partisan hatred of him. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/85 "2003-06-12T18:27:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*A truly amazing statement. \*\* why? that I can only recall once? or that some one would call him such? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/86 "2003-06-12T18:37:56Z")
**Debaser** selective quoting you had there : > [@](#): > > Those that are complaining about some imaginary insulting demeanor of his just don’t like his politics and re: your assertion that he ‘simply isn’t’ “demeaning, insulting” etc. is an **opinion** , not a ‘fact’ as you claim, and one specfically rejected and not held by me and others who have posted here. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/87 "2003-06-12T18:40:56Z")
and you may not have named me, but I specifically complained about the insulting nature of his posts. so this is where I say that you specifically accuse (me/others) of complaining about the insulting nature 'cause we don’t like his politics. hence my complaint to **you** that you do not in fact know me better than I know myself, that you specifically cannot assert that I complain about the insulting nature of his posts “just” cause I “don’t like his politics”. got it now? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/88 "2003-06-12T18:42:23Z")
No shit, sherlock. If we were all in agreement then why would we need this thread. And WTF are you talking about with “selective quoting”? I quoted **my entire post**! Including that phrase you point out. I only bolded the two seperate times when I mentioned **december** starting OP’s which you were claiming I didn’t say. I am astounded by your continuing mis-understanding of this. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/89 "2003-06-12T18:44:30Z")
Are you fucking seriously suggesting that politics has nothing to do with this? What is it, a coincidence that his critics are the liberals of the board and his supporters tend to be conservative? ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/90 "2003-06-12T18:52:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > why? that I can only recall once? or that some one would call him such? The first. There have been many many december-bashing threads on these boards, and you have been a prominent participant in many of these. And one of the common features of such threads is the accusation that december is a terrible bigot. So I find it amazing that you, who have such a heightened sensitively to yourself being implicated as a bigot, could make the statement that you did. ---
**Author:** ![japatlgt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@japatlgt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/japatlgt)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/91 "2003-06-12T18:54:32Z")
Whatever. Another vote for december. No like heat, leave kitchen. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/92 "2003-06-12T18:56:13Z")
**wring** , I see our dialogue over. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/93 "2003-06-12T18:57:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Debaser \* > \*\*Are you fucking seriously suggesting that politics has nothing to do with this? What is it, a coincidence that his critics are the liberals of the board and his supporters tend to be conservative? \*\* Au contraire mon frere! Go check the thread, Fred. It’s pretty much a split scene, Gene. You got some liberals defending him, Jim. You got some Pubbies berating the man, Stan. So get a clue, Stu. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/94 "2003-06-12T19:04:05Z")
WTF? I have **consistently** said "MY PROBLEM with **december** has to do w/his insulting behavior and poor tactics, _ **not** _ his politics. And I singled out your post because of the fucking part I quoted, NOT the rest. and yes, I absolutely assert that FOR ME, the problem is indeed his insulting behavior and poor tactics, not his politics. There’s any number of folks w/conservative views that I don’t bitch about. I am **not** making any other claim. So, have at it. how on earth can you tell **me** that you know better than I, \*\*why/what \*\* I feel the way I do about this poster? People I"ve complained about include folks who share my ideology as well as folks who don’t. People who I’ve **not** complained about include folks who share my ideology as well as folks who don’t. Your continued insistence that **december’s** ideology has fuck to do w/my feelings on the subject are unsupported/unsupportable. again you are the one who asserted that ‘people’ (yep, that would include me) who complain that he’s insulting (yep me again) do so 'cause they don’t like his politics. (nope, not at all true). that is exactly the comment I’ve been challenging you on, I could give a fuck about the rest of it. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/95 "2003-06-12T19:08:46Z")
This post is even funnier if you read it with this line in a Dr. McKoy voice for this line: > [@](#): > > You got some liberals defending him, Jim. I agree that it’s not totally along partisan lines. However, I think the fact that **december** is conservative is a large part of his problem. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/96 "2003-06-12T19:12:00Z")
Yes that is part of his troubles, Bubbles. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/97 "2003-06-12T19:14:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IzzyR \* > \*\*The first. There have been many many december-bashing threads on these boards, and you have been a prominent participant in many of these. And one of the common features of such threads is the accusation that december is a terrible bigot. So I find it amazing that you, who have such a heightened sensitively to yourself being implicated as a bigot, could make the statement that you did. \*\* Should I take offense at the tone here, **Izzy**? I only recall once. I don’t recall others. you say that it happens freequently? would be happy to see examples 'cause I only remember once. on one other occasion, I made a statement about my own recollections from interactions here, saying I didn’t recall something and you found an old thread that met the requirements. Perhaps you have a misguided idea about the place SDMB has in my life. I’ve got over 8000 posts here and have been here for several years. I’ve read a whole lot more threads than I’ve posted in. If I should state “IIRC” it really means “to the best of my recollection”. I do **not** have all of my thread participations memorized. Hell, I **knew** that there was the thread that **Gary** found, but fuck if I could find it, I apparently didn’t recall enough about it to locate it in a search. So, I ain’t lyin’ when I say “to the best of my recollection”, despite your search skills. If I say I don’t recall an interaction it’s cause it’s not on my radar, not 'cause I"m trying to hide anything. **grieny** riiiiiiight. whatever. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/98 "2003-06-12T19:50:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Debaser \* > \*\*However, I think the fact that **december** is conservative is a large part of his problem. \*\* Actually, i think that is the largest part of _any_ conservative’s problem. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/99 "2003-06-12T20:12:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > Should I take offense at the tone here, **Izzy**? No, you shouldn’t. (I’m not sure of what you mean anyway, but in general it’s better not to take offense at things. 🙂 ). > [@](#): > > I only recall once. I don’t recall others. you say that it happens freequently? would be happy to see examples 'cause I only remember once. Well if it makes you happy, here are some examples: [1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2420903#post2420903) [2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=3105637#post3105637) [3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=3394636#post3394636) [4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=3396866#post3396866) You may recognize yourself as a participant in most or all of these threads. (There are other threads as well, but these should suffice - I’m not going to spend all day searching - even to make you happy). > [@](#): > > on one other occasion, I made a statement about my own recollections from interactions here, saying I didn’t recall something and you found an old thread that met the requirements. Perhaps you have a misguided idea about the place SDMB has in my life. I’ve got over 8000 posts here and have been here for several years. I’ve read a whole lot more threads than I’ve posted in. Well I don’t think you would remember everything. But, as I said previously, you are a prominent december critic and have participated in many of these threads. And the december-is-a-bigot charge is a common one in these threads. And you’ve indicated that you take charges of bigotry very seriously. So it’s odd that you would have a recollection so completely add odds with reality on this issue. > [@](#): > > If I should state “IIRC” it really means “to the best of my recollection”. I do **not** have all of my thread participations memorized…So, I ain’t lyin’ when I say “to the best of my recollection”, despite your search skills. If I say I don’t recall an interaction it’s cause it’s not on my radar, not 'cause I"m trying to hide anything. Well yeah, but even after you said IIRC, you presumably intended for your statement to have some meaning. IOW, you implied that your memory was reliable to a degree, if not infallible. If you are going to turn around and claim that your memory is so weak that you can’t be relied on to remember prominent features of multiple threads that you participated in, maybe you should stop using your memory of SDMB threads as the basis for your arguments. (I don’t think you are deliberately lying about anything here.) ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147/100 "2003-06-12T20:29:18Z")
I’m sensative to **me** being callled a bigot. Does not mean that I get hyped up every time the word is used. RE: memory issues. IRL I’ve got a hell of a memory, have testified in court to conversations (accurately) etc. For on-line again - I point out : I have over 8000 posts here. I’ve participated in thousands of threads (some actively, others less so), I’ve read thousands more. To expect that I’ll recall mass amounts of data from each thread is asking a lot, frankly. I, like most folks, probably will remember posts directed at me, better than I will posts directed at some one else. (reading links) hm. Recall those threads semi, did semi recall some one (didn’t recall who) thinking he trivialized Palestinian lives or something like that, didn’t recall the specific term “bigot” being used in his direction. The one time I did recall it was when he responded to it, and semi recall it being in a GD thread anyhow. For example, so you understand where I’m coming from - I semi recall those threads, participated in them, sure. I don’t want to name names but of those 4 posters you found, 2 of em I recognize the name but don’t recall a damn thing about, one I recall as a liberal that I’ve said was out of line more than once, the other I recognize his name but don’t have a clear idea of their personality. See? I would hope that you wouldn’t read **anything** into my lack of recall of those other instances. I didn’t post it, it wasn’t directed to me, the post didn’t stand out in my mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-december-bashers/181147.md?page=6)