# To all the girls: Why don't you like nice guys? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 3, 2008, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282 "2008-10-03T07:12:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/141 "2008-10-04T02:16:16Z")
> [@AudreyK](#): > > I hate it when guys make this complaint. It’s insulting. Stop playing the martyr. > > Either you suck at self-assessment or the girls you’re attempting to date aren’t right in the head. Maybe both. > > I could have spent all of high school and college complaining about how guys didn’t want nice girls, and how all they cared about was how hot a girl was. But I didn’t, because I knew 1) that was bullshit, and 2) it wasn’t on me to change. > > Take an honest look at yourself. Would you want to be friends with you the way you are with girls? Once I get past your decent looks, confidence, and wit, will I find a guy who isn’t a doormat, is emotionally stable and independent, who doesn’t live in fear of making me upset, who knows the difference between assertiveness and assholishness, and flexible and spineless? You can rattle off a list of qualities that would attract me to you. What qualities of yours would keep me interested? > > Take an honest look at the girls you’re trying to date. Good people usually want to be with good people, so at least one of you is the problem. Is there anything about her that screams BIG FREAKING WARNING SIGN that you’re downplaying or ignoring? Is there anything keeping you interested in her other than the desire to fuck her? Years ago, there was some talk show (Donahue?) where a woman went on TV with her best friend. The best friend, who was hot, said, “Men just don’t want to date her because she’s heavy.” And she was. “But if they could see what a beautiful person she is on the inside, that wouldn’t matter.” It was basically “Shame on you, men, for being so shallow!” And I wished I could have been in that studio audience. I was very big at the time and I would have lurrrrrved to stand and say, “I know exactly what you mean. Women won’t give me a chance, either. Say, how about you and I go on a date, Miss Hottie?” Let the backpedaling begin! I’m guessing we all know women who are “nice gals” (I have to keep the n.g. thing) who aren’t finding the man they want, either. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/142 "2008-10-04T05:41:21Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > Years ago, there was some talk show (Donahue?) where a woman went on TV with her best friend. The best friend, who was hot, said, “Men just don’t want to date her because she’s heavy.” And she was. “But if they could see what a beautiful person she is on the inside, that wouldn’t matter.” It was basically “Shame on you, men, for being so shallow!” > > And I wished I could have been in that studio audience. I was very big at the time and I would have lurrrrrved to stand and say, “I know exactly what you mean. Women won’t give me a chance, either. Say, how about you and I go on a date, Miss Hottie?” Let the backpedaling begin! > > I’m guessing we all know women who are “nice gals” (I have to keep the n.g. thing) who aren’t finding the man they want, either. Interestingly, I’ve never heard a women say anything resembling “Why don’t men like Nice Girls? Every guy I know is dating some total bitch while I can never get a date.” As in your example, women who are unlucky in love generally blame it on their inferior looks, not their superior niceness. They aren’t always _correct_ in assuming that men reject them because they’re not hot enough – some women who make this complaint are decent looking but have terrible personalities. But although “men only care about looks” is a rather harsh view to take, at least women don’t seem to believe that the real problem is that men are operating under some bizarro system of values where up is down, good is bad, and a mean person is more desirable than a nice one. In other words, the “Nice Girl” complaint seems to be that men are shallow, while the “Nice Guy” complaint seems to be that women are insane, self-destructive, and don’t know what they really want/what’s good for them (a “Nice Guy”, of course). And although not all men are like this, there certainly are some who will quite openly say that they’re only interested in dating “hotties” and would never consider a woman who didn’t meet their physical standards. I’ve never heard a woman say she was desperate to date a jerk and would never consider a man who was “nice”. ---
**Author:** ![placebo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e274bd/32.png) [@placebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/placebo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/143 "2008-10-04T07:34:45Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Interestingly, I’ve never heard a women say anything resembling “Why don’t men like Nice Girls? Every guy I know is dating some total bitch while I can never get a date.” As in your example, women who are unlucky in love generally blame it on their inferior looks, not their superior niceness. Ever heard a smart but homely girl lament the fact that men shy away from intelligent, independent women? ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/144 "2008-10-04T08:20:46Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > I am confident, **witty**. Post number [5](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=486144). It stank. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/145 "2008-10-04T10:47:09Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Eh, I realize I’m over your age limit… heck, I was over your age limit by the time I lost my virginity… but I have no interest in someone who wants me, breathes me, tries to inhale me. “I couldn’t live without you” is emotional blackmail.. What do I mean when I say “I value her happiness more than my own.” Well, I don’t mean I’m a doormat, nor that I give up my own happiness and desires just so that the girl can be comfortable. No, I mean that when I love a girl, my main desire is that she is happy.. It means that I’m willing to give up my wishes as long as the girl has a good life. No, it’s not sexy or romantic in this day and age. People tell me I’m a fool all the time.. that no girl will respect that. I don’t give a flying fuck. You have a point **Nava**. A guy should be strong by himself, as should a girl. But, to feel so deeply for another person that metaphorically it feels like you would die without them.. I don’t think that’s weak or passive-aggressive. I think most people, guys and girls, are scared of opening themselves up (at least not before years have passed), so that romantic and passionate notions just get written off as creepy or manipulative. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/146 "2008-10-04T10:55:22Z")
> [@kittenblue](#): > > This could be part of the problem here. How can we make an objective analysis without knowing both sides of the problem? It could very well be that one of these “flaws” is something that is turning girls off. Here are my flaws. I like posting my dirty laundry on the dope, so for better or worse I hereby entrust you with the chinks in my armor. I am an attention whore I have a martyr and white-knight complex I’m overly trusting and have a hard time seeing the bad in people I have a tendency to overdrink I did smoke, but I just quit today (so far so good) I’m melodramatic I procrastinate I eat too much fast food I’m cranky if I don’t get 8 hours of sleep I interfere in the relationships of others I’m stubborn I’m stupid and risky sometimes with birth control I trust the vast majority of dopers.. I hope that’s not another flaw! ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/147 "2008-10-04T11:00:04Z")
> [@accidentalyuppie](#): > > That’s your problem. That’s not nice, it’s passive aggressive. OK, if you feel that way one evening every few weeks it’s romantic but a constant diet of “whatever makes you happy makes me happy” is annoying and off-putting. Nobody is responsible for my happiness except myself. If I choose to place a girl’s desires above my own, that does in no way make her responsible for my wellbeing. > [@](#): > > And then, when these relationships don’t work it’s always her fault because how could you be at fault when you made your love the center of her universe? Then when she goes for a good guy with his own feelings and thoughts that are often at conflict with her own and sometimes cause her unhappiness, she becomes the bitch that did you wrong. This is why they aren’t lining up for you. No, she is not a bitch. The girl who prompted this thread, well, I think she made the wrong choice, but she is not weak and she is not a bitch. It’s not her fault and I’d do anything to make her realize that, because that’s what she thinks already. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/148 "2008-10-04T11:01:51Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > **Auto** , you don’t sound like yourself, bud. > > -Acid. Your words reached me, and although we’ve talked in private, I wanted to publically show my appreciation for your kind and thoughtful post. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/149 "2008-10-04T11:08:21Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > So what happened here is that you broke up with your older girlfriend because she wanted kids and you didn’t. The thing that tipped that cart was finding another, younger girl online who was about to maybe break up with her long-term(?) boyfriend who you decided is a jerk. But she ended up going back with him and now you’re pretty convinced that girls don’t like nice guys, because you’re a nice guy and this other dude is a jerk and she went with him. You do keep tabs on me dont you? Well, I broke up with my ex because I didn’t want to marry her. As for the other girl, I’m not at liberty to say. I am at liberty honestly, but she said she doesn’t want me to talk about it online, so I won’t. I will say that your story is eerily close to reality. > [@](#): > > As for why you go home empty-handed from the bars…I agree with others who said that it’s not about who you AREN’T it’s about who you ARE. If you think being “nice” is agreeing with everything a girl says, only ever asking questions to her and never having a two-way _conversation_, and letting/making the girl make all the decisions…then you’re right, girls don’t like that version of “nice.” It’s boring and frankly annoying. Well it’s good I dont act like that then Honestly, it’s sad that ‘nice guy’ gets equated with passive-aggressive, boring, doormat, emotionally manipulative jerk. A girl wants a guy who can respect her, but yet at the same time will dominate her and steal her heart. How a man walks this line is something I try to learn daily. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/150 "2008-10-04T11:11:22Z")
> [@pbbth](#): > > one of the red flags in a man for me is that he announces himself as a Nice Guy. . . Also I must tell you that being kind and considerate goes a hell of a lot farther than being nice. . . . Maybe he isn’t always “nice” but he never ceases to be kind and I will take kindness over niceness any day. Don’t ever let him go 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/151 "2008-10-04T11:25:29Z")
> [@accidentalyuppie](#): > > Girls don’t like you because you are passive aggressive. Because of that comment? I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you misjudge me if that post is your basis for such a thought. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/152 "2008-10-04T11:26:46Z")
One thing I would ask the OP to consider: if you think it’s difficult in your 20s, wait till you’re older. Pretty soon everybody has been married and divorced, and the walking wounded abound, which only muddies the waters. I’ve been party to a fair amount of women behaving badly. E.g. I was on a date with a woman I really liked. At the end, she promised to call. Big red flag. I’m not so old-fashioned that I think it’s strictly the man’s job—I’d welcome a woman who was confident enough and independent enough to call. I also recognize that there may be some privacy issues…she’s hard to reach and doesn’t want to give me her number (home? work? cell?) or whatever. Fine. Of course, she didn’t call. If I were the woman and the man didn’t call me, we could have started a “men are toxic Nazi dickheads” thread about it, but if women want to do the same, their gender magically absolves them. It’s a woman’s prerogative to change her mind, right? Anything women do is just fine because they’re emotionally smarter than we are, are more sensitive, the weaker sex, yadda. A woman I knew said that her female students—poor Hispanics who were young adults—often dressed VERY provocatively. “It’s the only power they have,” she said. Not to paint with too broad a brush, but she felt that in that locale among that socioeconomic status, men made all the decisions and women were ignored. The one shot they had at power was in their ability to attract a man and marry well. The power dynamic is true (to some degree) in all interaction between men and women. Date a woman who went through a bad divorce and watch the control issues come out to play. But that’s okay because, you know, she’s a woman. I’m not sure the OP realizes that when you cater to her every whim, you shoot yourself in the foot. It’s like housing projects for the poor: when you give someone something, it “must be worthless” and it gets trashed immediately. Your approach gives her your power. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/153 "2008-10-04T11:29:19Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > You sound like you’re just looking for a place to stick it in, and that the world somehow owes you this. I can see this from what you’ve said, and I am terrible at finding subtexts like this. If I can see that, anybody else can, too. Sexual frustration is a hell of a drug. I don’t think the world owes me shit, but you are right in detecting an element of pent-up Discovery Channel rage in my posts. > [@](#): > > How long had you been going out with the first and third ex? If it wasn’t several years, those are unusual reasons for those breakups. Women can be scared off by too-early talk of marriage and kids just like men can. We’re not all looking to get married right out of college these days My relationship primer. All around age 29. 1st, dated 1.5 years, 2nd 4 months, 3rd 10 months. None were scared off by my serious talk.. I initiated all the breakups, although the 2nd is debatable but anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/154 "2008-10-04T11:37:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There are times I’ve made my happiness too dependent on other people, which is a bad idea for any number of reasons and it sounds like your basic problem. My girlfriend is very upfront about this, and it’s not always fun, but the thing is, she’s very perceptive and she’s right. When you take the approach of “I’m not happy unless you’re happy,” you’re putting a lot of pressure on the other person to be happy because she won’t want to be the cause of your misery. It’s not chivalrous, it’s a bad setup that puts all the pressure on the woman. That’s not a very manly way to handle things and most women like to see more assertiveness than that. Everything else in your post was spot-on. I try not to be a complainer. I come here to vent, and my self-esteem issues seem very glaring here because I talk about them very openly. In reality I’m an averagely confident guy, and I’m improving daily 😉 Let me just say one thing. I never said that in cases of where I love a woman that “I am only happy if you are happy.” I can be happy if my beloved is not happy. My point, as simple as I can state it, is that my biggest wish in the world is for her to be truly happy. I wish I could find a way to state my beliefs that doesn’t make it sound like emotional blackmail, because I’m certain that it isn’t. Yes, it’s deep and serious and scary to a lot of people, but it’s not passive-aggressive or manipulative. I like to think it’s agape, but it is crowded up on that cross so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/155 "2008-10-04T11:41:58Z")
Just throwing another female vote of support for the idea that Nice Guys aren’t all that nice. This Nice Guy perspective pisses me off because it tries to generalize the opinions of women based on a poorly derived opinion of oneself. You might as well change the title to a slightly less whiney “To all the girls: Whyyyyy don’t you like MEEEEE???” To all the guys who think they are Nice Guys that desperately deserve a great woman but through the unknown and unknowable powers of the universe, all the women are being drawn to men who barely pass as socially acceptable: There are plenty of reasons why women do not want to date you. If you are too stupid, or self-obsessed, to think that your faults and behavior and attitudes aren’t what is keeping women from being interested, then none of us can help you. The majority of the women in this thread have pointed out the same thing. You will get nowhere trying to portray yourself as the blank slate of stereotypes of what women want, decrying the death of chivalry and romance in one fell swoop. I know it’s much easier to pretend like you are Perfect Man in a Box just waiting to be scooped up by some nice deserving young lady, but you just simply aren’t. I despise this attitude for so many reasons and in so many ways that it is difficult to articulate. It and anything resembling it is an instant turn-off. I have no idea why anybody past the age of 20 still tries to pretend like this ridiculous meme has any shred of truth. It’s an emotional crutch for people who aren’t self-actualized enough to admit their own faults. Instead you project them onto other people and pretend like the fault lies there. “Women” don’t like motorcycles or bad boys or tattoos or whatever. “Women” don’t constitute a hive mind. “Women” don’t hate you because you’re “too nice”. “Women” don’t like you because of all the negative characteristics that can be brushed over by pretending that you’re “just too nice”. I wish these guys would get over themselves. You don’t treat women like people, you pretend to like and respect and value them so much but you seem to just want one, regardless of what or who she is. Just A woman. Just one, whomever, so you can be so nice to her. I’m dating a nice guy, but he’s not one of your kind, because he doesn’t think of himself as a constant victim all the time. He’s not manipulative and emotionally unstable and entitled, nor is he a child. He looks at me adoringly because he respects me and has things to offer the relationship as a person and not as a caretaker or protector. He does things for me because it’s reciprocal, and I think you would find that most women would feel insulted and patronized by an attitude that presumes their preferences and happiness and comfort above all else. You don’t want a woman, that is clear, you want a girl. Someone who isn’t emotionally mature enough to criticize you for your shortfalls and demand things from you, someone who has no experience with the give and take of a relationship, someone who has no concern for bettering herself or helping you achieve success however you define it. You want someone who will make you feel used and hurt and petty, because as you’ve said, you can take it. I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would ever attest to the level of emotional abuse they can withstand, if only they could have someone to dish it out. In short (boy this isn’t short either), none of us here can help you. None of the great advice that has come from the many intelligent and experienced women in this thread will sink in, because they do not validate the perception in your head. We will be dismissed, and disregarded, just as the many other people in your life that don’t fit this stereotype have surely been dismissed. But you didn’t come here looking for advice, you came here looking for validation of your juvenile worldview. Ultimately you are the only one who will have to pay the price for this generalization, not us, not the millions of nice guys out there who never stooped to the level of getting the Nice Guy ™ Membership Card and merchandise, advertising what a catch they are and how any girl would be lucky to have them. Just you. So my only piece of advice then, is that you are never ever as great and talented and exceptional as _you say_ you are. You are only as good as other people perceive you to be. If you keep saying it, and nobody’s believing it, there’s a disconnect somewhere. Maybe you should take a look and figure out where it is. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/156 "2008-10-04T11:42:02Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > And as long as we’re analyzing you, **Autolycus** , have you ever thought about whether it’s significant that you’ve only had serious relationships with women who were somewhat older than you? . To be bluntly honest, I think that women over the age of oh, say 28 or so are more emotionally mature and that we click better. There are lots of mature women my age or younger I’m sure, but I haven’t met many yet. Of course, that’s probably due in large part to my actions and personality, so I by no means mean this to be a blanket statement against women age 20-30. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/157 "2008-10-04T11:44:32Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > In short (boy this isn’t short either), none of us here can help you. None of the great advice that has come from the many intelligent and experienced women in this thread will sink in, because they do not validate the perception in your head. We will be dismissed, and disregarded, just as the many other people in your life that don’t fit this stereotype have surely been dismissed. But you didn’t come here looking for advice, you came here looking for validation of your juvenile worldview. Ultimately you are the only one who will have to pay the price for this generalization, not us, not the millions of nice guys out there who never stooped to the level of getting the Nice Guy ™ Membership Card and merchandise, advertising what a catch they are and how any girl would be lucky to have them. > Just you. . Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/158 "2008-10-04T11:56:28Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > You don’t want a woman, that is clear, you want a girl. Someone who isn’t emotionally mature enough to criticize you for your shortfalls and demand things from you, someone who has no experience with the give and take of a relationship, someone who has no concern for bettering herself or helping you achieve success however you define it. You want someone who will make you feel used and hurt and petty, because as you’ve said, you can take it. I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would ever attest to the level of emotional abuse they can withstand, if only they could have someone to dish it out. You’re wrong. My ex-GF tore me a new asshole on regular occasions. We both helped each other despite pain of being criticized. If my profession of love sounds like emotional abuse, then it is my fault for not being eloquent enough to describe it. > [@](#): > > In short (boy this isn’t short either), none of us here can help you. None of the great advice that has come from the many intelligent and experienced women in this thread will sink in, because they do not validate the perception in your head. We will be dismissed, and disregarded, just as the many other people in your life that don’t fit this stereotype have surely been dismissed. But you didn’t come here looking for advice, you came here looking for validation of your juvenile worldview. Ultimately you are the only one who will have to pay the price for this generalization, not us, not the millions of nice guys out there who never stooped to the level of getting the Nice Guy ™ Membership Card and merchandise, advertising what a catch they are and how any girl would be lucky to have them. > Just you. We have met in person before, and I was indeed in many ways a “Nice Guy” then. But, that’s besides the point. For you to know me so little that you would assert I only made this thread to seek meaningless self-validation is infuriating. I try to improve myself constantly. You are wrong. > [@](#): > > So my only piece of advice then, is that you are never ever as great and talented and exceptional as _you say_ you are. You are only as good as other people perceive you to be. If you keep saying it, and nobody’s believing it, there’s a disconnect somewhere. Maybe you should take a look and figure out where it is. Only as good as other people perceive me to be? I am heavily dependent on the opinion of others, for better or for worse, but in the end my happiness and my life is MY decision ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/159 "2008-10-04T12:38:25Z")
I think those women (and men for that matter) who are posting here to the effect that they don’t like nice guys because they are entitled and self absorbed are kidding themselves. Relevant article: [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/india\_knight/article4837668.ece](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/india_knight/article4837668.ece) At least a proportion of women don’t like nice guys not because they are whiney and entitled about their right to sex and a girlfriend: they don’t like nice guys because nice guys don’t get to the top and be alpha male, so they won’t be rich and prestigious. And at least a proportion of women want a guy who is going to be rich and prestigious. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282/160 "2008-10-04T13:17:38Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > I think those women (and men for that matter) who are posting here to the effect that they don’t like nice guys because they are entitled and self absorbed are kidding themselves. > > Relevant article: The article makes so many leaps of logic, it could win a gold medal at the Olympics. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-girls-why-dont-you-like-nice-guys/466282.md?page=9)