# To all the ignorant people out there - stop making the South out to be some unique villain. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2015, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024 "2015-07-02T04:59:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/181 "2015-07-03T03:03:14Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Nobody goes around asking Northernors to apologize for “Jersey Shore.” . Yes, morons acting like morons on TV – that is TOTALLY the same thing as slavery. The body count of the fake tan muscleheads on reality tv - it’s completely horrifying, right? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/182 "2015-07-03T03:14:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > 400 years of heritage and the OP is whining about the four years his ancestors were at their most dickish? Cry me a river. Yeah, they need to fly a flag “commemorating their heritage”.:rolleyes: Four fucking years of “heritage”. The Confederate battle flag flew over the Southern States for about three years. The British Flag for about 170 years. Why not fly the Union Jack instead of the Stars and Bars? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/183 "2015-07-03T03:23:19Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Tomorrow is July 4th (I’m posting from Beijing). I’ve invited people of a few nationalities over to my apartment. One of the things we’ll be celebrating is the United States of America. One way we will celebrate that is to destroy (probably by burning, but see later) little confederate flags, little Georgia flags, little Tennessee flags, little Florida flags, little Texas flags…well, you get the picture. Some people may even celebrate by pissing on those flags. Good for them, I say. > > . Why Florida? The flag is modeled after the Banner of the Spanish Empire. The Lone Star flag predates the CSA by three decades. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/184 "2015-07-03T03:26:16Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I don’t understand all the historical revisionism in this thread. _The Dukes of Hazzard_ was not a great program. It was purest shit, whatever the flag. It was the one show that I was not allowed to watch because according to my mom it was too stupid. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/185 "2015-07-03T03:31:48Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > And it is true, the North does not go around celebrating, it’s pre 1804 racism. I guess that I could argue that George Washington had slaves, and we all seem to get past that and think he was a good guy, so why the problem with Southern culture? Southern culture basically got a hard stop with slavery, and if we say “southern culture,”. Slavery is the biggest association. George has other associations that come before slavery. You can like George Washington without anybody thinking you are a racist. It’s one thing to argue that _Southern_ culture, or “the South”, should have associations beyond slavery. But the _Confederate States of America_? Fuck those guys. Unfortunately, the symbols of the Confederacy are _the_ default symbols of the South as a whole (and almost certainly cannot be replaced by anything as specifically “Southern” symbols). Since the Confederacy is uniquely and inescapably identified with slavery and white supremacy and the militant defense of slavery and white supremacy, Southerners just don’t get to have untainted symbols (flags and so forth) of “the South”. Which is fair enough, really. There is no “Midwestern flag”. Everyone can use American symbols (the _American_ flag), and then just refer to their states or regions by name when discussing which part of the country has the most majestic scenery, or who is kindest to strangers and most polite to their elders, or the _real_ way to prepare barbecue, or trash-talking about sports, or whatever. And I agree that no one should be able to ignorantly equate “the South” or “Southerners” with “racism” (as if the the country as a whole didn’t have a long and painful history of slavery, racism, expropriation of American Indian lands, etc., etc., etc.). But that sure would be a whole lot easier point to make if so damned many of my fellow Southerners weren’t busy waving the flag from that time when a bunch of our ancestors tried to secede from the Union in order to perpetuate the supremacy of the “White race” and the enslavement and subordination of the “Negro race”, thus plunging the country into a huge and bloody war. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/186 "2015-07-03T03:37:48Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Her name was Lola… She was a showgirl? With yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/187 "2015-07-03T03:40:33Z")
My point to starting this thread wasn’t about causing additional divisiveness. I already knew there were still general, vague and mostly unwarranted anti-Southern sentiments lingering around and I will not put up with with those but that is a constant and unresolvable debate. I just find it extremely odd that a tragic mass shooting that everyone condemns in the harshest terms possible could also be a touchstone for anti-Southern sentiment yet again using general Southern culture as a root cause. The general public did not riot and most importantly, the victim’s families gave statements of grace even under the most extreme circumstances possible. That was the only radio broadcast that I have ever heard that made me break down into tears. I mean that literally. I think that speaks extremely well to the people of South Carolina. They have handled the tragedy with the utmost grace possible. The rest of the nation needs to back off, let them mourn and let the families rebuild their lives. It is a freak event that could happen to anyone at any time but the chances would be extraordinary that anyone else could have dealt with the tragedy as well as they have. I quietly applaud them for their dignity in the wake of a terrible tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/188 "2015-07-03T03:40:38Z")
I for one am very very sorry for Jersey Shore, and I say so on behalf of the Union. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/189 "2015-07-03T03:48:00Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > As a Southerner by upbringing and a long heritage, I have found it astounding how quickly the rest of the country has turned against the South once again based on the acts of a lone individual. It is as if race based controversies haven’t happened in other regions but of course that isn’t true. \ As a rule of thumb, the typical problem a typical American has to worry about rates approximately a 3 out of 10 compared to the problems a lot of the world has to face. Even if you did September Eleven all over again, every day straight, for 3 years, it still wouldn’t equal the number of deaths in the Seige of Leningrad for example. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/190 "2015-07-03T03:55:42Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > My point to starting this thread wasn’t about causing additional divisiveness. I already knew there were still general, vague and mostly unwarranted anti-Southern sentiments lingering around and I will not put up with with those but that is a constant and unresolvable debate. > > I just find it extremely odd that a tragic mass shooting that everyone condemns in the harshest terms possible could also be a touchstone for anti-Southern sentiment yet again using general Southern culture as a root cause. The general public did not riot and most importantly, the victim’s families gave statements of grace even under the most extreme circumstances possible. That was the only radio broadcast that I have ever heard that made me break down into tears. I mean that literally. > > I think that speaks extremely well to the people of South Carolina. They have handled the tragedy with the utmost grace possible. The rest of the nation needs to back off, let them mourn and let the families rebuild their lives. It is a freak event that could happen to anyone at any time but the chances would be extraordinary that anyone else could have dealt with the tragedy as well as they have. I quietly applaud them for their dignity in the wake of a terrible tragedy. Yes, the families of the victims acted with utmost grace and dignity. While the judge sat at the bench and asked that the nation remember the shooter’s family was victimized too. While the sentiment was worthy of respect, sitting there, asking people to remember to treat the killer’s family as victims too, while staring at the ones left behind by a white supremacist’s hate - that was a fucking tone deaf statement. The sister of the shooter started a gofundme page to try and rebuild her wedding day. I cannot imagine why people are looking to the south and saying what the ever loving fuck. ETA - And I type this sitting in Virginia, the product of a whole lotta generations of Virginians and a whole lotta “Southern Pride.” ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/191 "2015-07-03T03:57:37Z")
* * * ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/192 "2015-07-03T03:58:36Z")
I’m waiting for the amusement park chain to become _Five Flags_. This has been on my mind since for the last four days I was setting up, operating and then taking down support for a military celebratory event at Six Flags - La Ronde ([Con Forza 2015](http://conforza.ca/en/)) and I only got to spend about 30 minutes in the park itself and couldn’t find a skeeball booth which annoyed me because I like skeeball and wanted to win a crappy stuffed animal. Plus it rained. Like, a _lot_. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/193 "2015-07-03T04:01:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m waiting for the amusement park chain to become _Five Flags_. > This has been on my mind since for the last four days I was setting up, operating and then taking down support for a military celebratory event at Six Flags - La Ronde ([Con Forza 2015](http://conforza.ca/en/)) and I only got to spend about 30 minutes in the park itself and couldn’t find a skeeball booth which annoyed me because I like skeeball and wanted to win a crappy stuffed animal. > > Plus it rained. Like, a _lot_. Thanks, Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/194 "2015-07-03T04:03:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, they need to fly a flag “commemorating their heritage”.:rolleyes: Four fucking years of “heritage”. The Confederate battle flag flew over the Southern States for about three years. The British Flag for about 170 years. Why not fly the Union Jack instead of the Stars and Bars? It’s already been pointed out to me and I now pay it forward that “stars and bars” doesn’t actually mean the familiar battle flag, but the now-lesser-known original version of the CSA national flag, which to me looks like a low-res version of the USA national flag. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/195 "2015-07-03T04:12:21Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Yes, the families of the victims acted with utmost grace and dignity. While the judge sat at the bench and asked that the nation remember the shooter’s family was victimized too. While the sentiment was worthy of respect, sitting there, asking people to remember to treat the killer’s family as victims too, while staring at the ones left behind by a white supremacist’s hate - that was a fucking tone deaf statement. The sister of the shooter started a gofundme page to try and rebuild her wedding day. I cannot imagine why people are looking to the south and saying what the ever loving fuck. > > ETA - And I type this sitting in Virginia, the product of a whole lotta generations of Virginians and a whole lotta “Southern Pride.” To be fair, they is a lot of collateral damage from their own family member’s pure evil. I know nothing about the family in general other than what the news says but they will never be able to get away from his crime even if they are the most angelic people on Earth. It is one thing to judge but it another to think what you would do if you were caught up in the general crime of family association with a notorious criminal. Hitler still has family members that live in The U.S. under assumed names. They decided to never had kids so that they could kill off the family line once and for all. That is a big burden for something that they personally had nothing to do with. I agree that the GoFundMe web page is about the most tasteless thing you can do however. Any Southern person no matter how rich or poor should have more class than that. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/196 "2015-07-03T04:14:04Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > My point to starting this thread wasn’t about causing additional divisiveness. I already knew there were still general, vague and mostly unwarranted anti-Southern sentiments lingering around and I will not put up with with those but that is a constant and unresolvable debate. You have not demonstrated that these sentiments are unwarranted. Here’s a hint: continuing to post drivel about how you loved living in the South as a white boy doesn’t count. > [@](#): > > I just find it extremely odd that a tragic mass shooting that everyone condemns in the harshest terms possible could also be a touchstone for anti-Southern sentiment yet again using general Southern culture as a root cause. The general public did not riot and most importantly, the victim’s families gave statements of grace even under the most extreme circumstances possible. That was the only radio broadcast that I have ever heard that made me break down into tears. I mean that literally. That’s nice. Why don’t you now address the issue of all the black churches that have been torched since that asshole killed those people. Please note that none of these churches are in the North. > [@](#): > > I think that speaks extremely well to the people of South Carolina. They have handled the tragedy with the utmost grace possible. The rest of the nation needs to back off, let them mourn and let the families rebuild their lives.\*\* It is a freak event that could happen to anyone at any time\*\* but the chances would be extraordinary that anyone else could have dealt with the tragedy as well as they have. I quietly applaud them for their dignity in the wake of a terrible tragedy. Bolding mine. If by “it could happen to anyone at anytime” you mean “it could only happen to Black people in the South” then I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/197 "2015-07-03T04:25:16Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > And for fuck’s sake, the word is Northern **e** r. Nah, it’s “Yankee” :). ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/198 "2015-07-03T04:26:14Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > If by “it could happen to anyone at anytime” you mean “it could only happen to Black people in the South” then I agree. I was going to respond to your other points in detail but then I realized that you don’t have any idea what you are talking about when you dropped this turd. Many counter-examples were already given earlier in this thread. Read it, think about it and then get back to us when you have well informed opinions. Thank you in advance. ~Shagnasty ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/199 "2015-07-03T04:27:02Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > To be fair, they is a lot of collateral damage from their own family member’s pure evil. I know nothing about the family in general other than what the news says but they will never be able to get away from his crime even if they are the most angelic people on Earth. > > It is one thing to judge but it another to think what you would do if you were caught up in the general crime of family association with a notorious criminal. \*\*Hitler still has family members that live in The U.S. under assumed names. They decided to never had kids so that they could kill off the family line once and for all. That is a big burden for something that they personally had nothing to do with. > \*\* > I agree that the GoFundMe web page is about the most tasteless thing you can do however. Any Southern person no matter how rich or poor should have more class than that. (Emphasis added) and while addressing the descendants of those who died at Hitler’s command, would you try to tell them how hard their killer’s family has it? Or would you display a shade more class than that? I indicated that the sentiment is worthy of respect – his family did not do anything to deserve the punishment that will inevitably follow his name. But is the hearing the appropriate place to make the point? With the Confederate flag flying proudly at full mast just outside? That, for me, is pretty damn classless. And it demonstrates that our glorious South is producing this type of person, in this type of culture, that makes that sort of statement seem perfectly reasonable. ETA-- and some may feel that the family does deserve a bit of the credit - they didn’t teach any better than that. While he may have been a racist killer no matter what, what influence did the family have on his belief system? I don’t know. I have no way of knowing, frankly. But can you say his family is totally blameless in his evil? This isn’t generations later trying to escape the stain of an ancestor. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/200 "2015-07-03T04:39:53Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Many counter-examples were already given earlier in this thread. Read it, think about it and then get back to us when you have well informed opinions. Thank you in advance. ~Shagnasty Counter-examples to what? Southern home grown racism? No, there have been no counter-examples. Just you pretending like everyone else is the same as you. They’re not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024.md?page=11)