# To all the ignorant people out there - stop making the South out to be some unique villain. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2015, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024 "2015-07-02T04:59:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/261 "2015-07-04T09:56:29Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > And, now you look as smart as a defender of the Confederate flag, of which there are none in this thread. I guess you’re the dumbest asshole here, then. Well done. I guess you missed the OP, where he says people saying the flag shouldn’t be flown are ignoring history? Or how **Tibby** is saying that it’s okay for ignorant Southerners to fly the flag? (Of course, **Shag** ’s post about how it’s just a piece of cloth that shouldn’t matter, and that it seems so stupid to care about it that he would almost believe it was a conspiracy hadn’t been posted yet.) Or the fact that **Shagnasty** says his post is just about what has happened in the past week–and the only thing that has gone on in the past week is that Southerners have been condemned for flying the flag? I know you want to take the flag out of this, because you can’t argue it isn’t racist. But it’s an integral part of the issue. The fact that this flag is flown–the fact that there even are people who don’t know it’s racist because it’s been flown so long–that is one of the biggest reasons people think the South is much more racist. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/262 "2015-07-04T11:28:38Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I guess you missed the OP, where he says people saying the flag shouldn’t be flown are ignoring history? Or how **Tibby** is saying that it’s okay for ignorant Southerners to fly the flag? (Of course, **Shag** ’s post about how it’s just a piece of cloth that shouldn’t matter, and that it seems so stupid to care about it that he would almost believe it was a conspiracy hadn’t been posted yet.) I guess you’re unfamiliar with the linear flow of time. The OP brought it up in passing, and simply states that going after it the Dukes of Hazzard isn’t going to appreciably change the level of racism in the in the country. If you disagree with that, I don’t know what I can do for you. As far as I can tell, the other statements came after the post you quoted. > [@BigT](#): > > I know you want to take the flag out of this, because you can’t argue it isn’t racist. But it’s an integral part of the issue. The fact that this flag is flown–the fact that there even are people who don’t know it’s racist because it’s been flown so long–that is one of the biggest reasons people think the South is much more racist. Wrong, accusatory douchenozzle. I want it gone because I think it’s a shitty fucking symbol of some shitty people who did some shitty fucking things. I’ve never advocated anyone to fly it or use it, and the sooner it is gone, the sooner stupid people like you will have to move past it and actually look at the root of the problem, and not just its outward signs. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/263 "2015-07-04T16:43:07Z")
Southern politics: God, guns, grits and gays. Rinse, repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/264 "2015-07-04T16:50:11Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Can everyone please stop talking about flags? I only mentioned them as a casual reference in the OP but the fixation on them leads me to believe that even the members of the SDMB have the attention span of a brain damaged house cat. They are just dyed pieces of cloth that comes and go just like bell bottoms but they aren’t fundamentally important. No one in this thread has advocated flying a Confederate Flag on state grounds yet most people insist on debating it like it is a contentious issue. No one advocated it so take your comments about that to your own personal message board where you can give your comments and then respond to yourself in an infinite loop. > > If I was more conspiracy theory minded, I could almost believe that a special interest group orchestrated this whole public opinion mess from the outside. We had a tragic mass murder and everyone directly affected stood tall and spoke eloquently about it directly afterwards even while they were in mourning. They should be quietly applauded for it but instead we get get hostility towards a whole region of the U.S. > > Media: “We have another tragic shooting. You know that the focus is going to be on new gun control laws just like it was after the Connecticut child massacres.” > > Lobbyist: “No, it isn’t going to work that way. We have a very different plan. You know how everyone likes to paint the South as a backwards, racist place. We are going to use that to our advantage. There is a Confederate flag that they have on a memorial near the capitol in South Carolina. We will just shift all the attention to it and cause a mass diversion.” > > Media: “That is too stupid for words. That doesn’t have anything to do with the current issues. Nobody will fall for that.” > > Lobbyist: “You underestimate the stupidity of the American public. We can turn them against themselves based on trivial issues and they will fall for it every single time.” > > Cut to the current day. Jesus, but you’re a douchebag. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/265 "2015-07-04T16:50:57Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > God, guns, grits and gays. That was one hell of a party. However, you didn’t say anything at all about mama, or trains, or trucks, or prison, or getting drunk. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/266 "2015-07-04T16:51:12Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Can everyone please stop talking about flags? . Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/267 "2015-07-04T16:52:10Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > Jesus, but you’re a douchebag. Maybe but what does that have to do with the topic at hand? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/268 "2015-07-04T16:54:21Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Can everyone please stop talking about flags? I only mentioned them as a casual reference in the OP but the fixation on them leads me to believe that even the members of the SDMB have the attention span of a brain damaged house cat. They are just dyed pieces of cloth that comes and go just like bell bottoms but they aren’t fundamentally important. No one in this thread has advocated flying a Confederate Flag on state grounds yet most people insist on debating it like it is a contentious issue. No one advocated it so take your comments about that to your own personal message board where you can give your comments and then respond to yourself in an infinite loop. > > If I was more conspiracy theory minded, I could almost believe that a special interest group orchestrated this whole public opinion mess from the outside. We had a tragic mass murder and everyone directly affected stood tall and spoke eloquently about it directly afterwards even while they were in mourning. They should be quietly applauded for it but instead we get get hostility towards a whole region of the U.S. > > Media: “We have another tragic shooting. You know that the focus is going to be on new gun control laws just like it was after the Connecticut child massacres.” > > Lobbyist: “No, it isn’t going to work that way. We have a very different plan. You know how everyone likes to paint the South as a backwards, racist place. We are going to use that to our advantage. There is a Confederate flag that they have on a memorial near the capitol in South Carolina. We will just shift all the attention to it and cause a mass diversion.” > > Media: “That is too stupid for words. That doesn’t have anything to do with the current issues. Nobody will fall for that.” > > Lobbyist: “You underestimate the stupidity of the American public. We can turn them against themselves based on trivial issues and they will fall for it every single time.” > > Cut to the current day. This is an incredibly juvenile and simplistic analysis of what really happened – it was more like “this terrible thing happened, and the murderer used a symbol that many people rationally and reasonably consider a symbol of racist oppression… while this won’t fix the problem, maybe we should take down this symbol from state property because so many people reasonably find it offensive, and it really does represent racism to lots and lots of people, and this should have been done long ago… so let’s do it”. What’s the problem with this? Why does it bother you so much? ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/269 "2015-07-04T16:57:34Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Maybe but what does that have to do with the topic at hand? It is the topic at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/270 "2015-07-04T17:03:29Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > It is the topic at hand. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/271 "2015-07-04T17:09:40Z")
Ha ha ha! Here we are: Without talking about the confederate shit flag, stop making the South out to be some unique villian. Ha! You know that one, huge, absolutely unique thing? Yeah, let’s not talk about that. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/272 "2015-07-04T17:24:51Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Ha ha ha! Here we are: Without talking about the confederate shit flag, stop making the South out to be some unique villian. Ha! You know that one, huge, absolutely unique thing? Yeah, let’s not talk about that. The problem is that no one in this thread has tried to make any counterarguments for displaying the flag outside of some places like museums so I don’t see why people people keep acting like they are scoring points against an opponent that never even showed up to the fight. Do you honestly think that most of the bigoted talk. mean-spirited jokes and actions against the South will go away if we just get rid of some flags? If so, I am all for it. I wish all prejudice was that easy to remedy. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/273 "2015-07-04T17:46:53Z")
Bigoted? Bigoted against The South? How about if The South took down the flag, and admitted what it stood for, and apologized to the African Americans who, to this day, are intimidated by The State when the piece of shit is flown? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/274 "2015-07-04T17:51:34Z")
**Shagnasty’s** understanding of this matter has not improved one bit since when he thought that there were no major slave ports in the south and the Mason-Dixon line was the product of a feud. Again, the problem remains a complete inability to face the matter realistically. According to him, either the flag is not at all relevant, or it is the one thing that will get rid of racism. What an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/275 "2015-07-04T18:05:54Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > **Shagnasty’s** understanding of this matter has not improved one bit since when he thought that there were no major slave ports in the south and **the Mason-Dixon line was the product of a feud.** > > What an asshole. You might want to do to check your facts before calling someone else out on theirs. The Mason-Dixon line was the result of a family feud. That was not a mistake or ignorance on my part. I should have called you on your counter-assertion earlier. > **[Amazon.com: Boundaries: How the Mason-Dixon Line Settled a Family Feud and...](https://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-Mason-Dixon-Settled-Family-Divided/dp/0763673315)** > > Amazon.com: Boundaries: How the Mason-Dixon Line Settled a Family Feud and Divided a Nation: 9780763673314: Walker, Sally M.: Books > **[Boundaries: How the Mason-Dixon Line Settled a Family Feud and Divided a...](https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-0-7636-5612-6)** > > Walker (Secrets of a Civil War Submarine) presents an exhaustively researched account of the people and events surrounding the c... ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/276 "2015-07-04T18:21:47Z")
Thinking more about it, the excluded middle seems about the limit of logic for people like Shagnasty. Either the flag is irrelevant or it solves everything. Either all places are equivalently racist, or there is no racism in the North. Simplistic hand waving is probably easier than coping with reality. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/277 "2015-07-04T18:26:24Z")
Its a gesture, an affirmation. It doesn’t cause a change, it _reflects_ that change. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/278 "2015-07-04T18:46:40Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Thinking more about it, the excluded middle seems about the limit of logic for people like Shagnasty. Either the flag is irrelevant or it solves everything. Either all places are equivalently racist, or there is no racism in the North. > > Simplistic hand waving is probably easier than coping with reality. I understand the middle position just fine and it is one I mostly advocate myself. However, I also think it is red herring and a convenient one at that. Hardly anyone was talking about battle flags two weeks ago but now it is one of the most imperative social issues of our day. Take it down or not. I don’t really care personally because I don’t have any but don’t pretend it is an urgent issue either because that is just another example of media driven reactionary nonsense. A few weeks from now it will be something completely different. It is the equivalent of a ribbon campaign. They can be nice gestures that make people feel like they are making a real difference but they really aren’t especially in the long-term. The real issues are much harder to deal with so of course people pick the path of least resistance and try to pretend they have found a ‘solution’ even if it is only marginally related to the larger problem. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/279 "2015-07-04T18:47:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its a gesture, an affirmation. It doesn’t cause a change, it _reflects_ that change. I liked your rendition of Dixieland: Way down in the land of cotton Connecticut, Baltimore, West Manhattan… ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/280 "2015-07-04T19:10:51Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its a gesture, an affirmation. It doesn’t cause a change, it _reflects_ that change. Hopefully it goes further than that and promotes change. At least it discontinues the manifest official endorsement that is at odds with change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024.md?page=15)