# To all the ignorant people out there - stop making the South out to be some unique villain. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2015, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024 "2015-07-02T04:59:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/281 "2015-07-04T20:09:23Z")
Happy 4th of July everyone! Let us celebrate with a classic little number from [Woody Guthrie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxiMrvDbq3s). ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/282 "2015-07-04T20:34:35Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Happy 4th of July everyone! Let us celebrate with a classic little number from [Woody Guthrie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxiMrvDbq3s). I’ll vote for that!!! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/283 "2015-07-04T20:39:08Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3jRnL6fRdcc/maxresdefault.jpg "Watch The Battle Hymn of the Republic performed by the U.S. Army Chorus") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jRnL6fRdcc) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/284 "2015-07-04T20:41:33Z")
LOL, we’ve started a monster Keep on Rockin’ in a Freeworld… [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI8XVJiqHdc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI8XVJiqHdc) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/285 "2015-07-04T21:05:09Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Ha ha ha! Here we are: Without talking about the confederate shit flag, stop making the South out to be some unique villian. Ha! You know that one, huge, absolutely unique thing? Yeah, let’s not talk about that. Monuments and schools named after the founder of the KKK. Church burnings. Lynchings. The KKK. Stone Mountain. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/286 "2015-07-04T22:17:20Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Uh-yeah. I am certain that I will never murder anyone. Self-defense and the death penalty are quite different in my opinion and those of legal scholars. I already saved three people from dying (2 from drowning and one from a car accident) so I am already up three. I would be willing to take 1 point loss for an especially terrible person like Dylann Roof. Really? This is how you view human life? You saved 3 people so now you’re entitled to 3 kills? Yeah, I’ll stand by my previous statement that you’re just itching to kill someone. If it makes you feel any better I’ll pretend that you’re an equal opportunity would-be killer. > [@](#): > > Character assassination isn’t a good debating tool especially when you are trying to go up against someone like me or Scylla. He is better than I am but we both have really good credentials. You and **Scylla** both are making idiotic arguments. And I don’t think the word _credentials_ means what you think it does. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/287 "2015-07-04T22:18:10Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The Southern states are where most of the black people live - by choice. It is their historical home and they are an integral part of the history of the region. No, you dimwitted peckerhead. The South is where plenty of black folks live because they were unable to afford to be able to move during one of the Great Northern Migrations. They didn’t reside in the South because they were overly fond of legally sanctioned wholesale [lynchings](http://www.chesnuttarchive.org/classroom/lynchingstat.html), nor did they elect all on their own with the full spectrum of civil rights at their disposal ( NOT ) to continue to reside in a South filled with state-sanctioned [laws designed to abuse and humiliate blacks of all ages and genders.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws) No. It’s not by choice. Now, ya’ll jes’ keep dem blindahs strapped awhn and keep on keepin’ on down by dat ole Waffle House. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/288 "2015-07-04T22:36:26Z")
[The historical home of the blacks whose descendants were forced to live in The United States of America.](http://www.slaverysite.com/Body/maps.htm#map5) Against their will, doncha know. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/289 "2015-07-04T22:57:17Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > No, you dimwitted peckerhead. The South is where plenty of black folks live because they were unable to afford to be able to move during one of the Great Northern Migrations. > :smack: No. First of all I am not dumb in the least. Academic and work results demonstrate that quite well. Insults based on me being stupid always fall on deaf ears because, although I may not be the smartest person in world, I am in the top 1% although I can’t draw well to save my life. You have to pick a more appropriate insult. Douchebag or asshole are much better choices. The chances are outstanding that I am both smarter and make more money than you despite being a person raised in rural Louisiana. Are you personally dumb enough to think that black people are incapable of moving somewhere else that is more advantageous? A lot of them did and got burned by the experience. Los Angeles, Chicago and Detroit have black populations that have not fared well at all in general. There has been a reverse migration back to the South for many of them. That is ancestral home and the vast majority of Southerners know that and welcome them back. This thread is about discrimination based on being born or living in the South. I thought that people would ask me for cites but they were not necessary because plenty of people were perfectly willing to spew hate speech based on nothing but a vague and general geographic description. Can you take a step back in your own mind and see why that just might be considered hypocrisy? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/290 "2015-07-04T23:01:24Z")
Huh. That’s funny. You really don’t seem that smart. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/291 "2015-07-04T23:02:20Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The problem is that no one in this thread has tried to make any counterarguments for displaying the flag outside of some places like museums so I don’t see why people people keep acting like they are scoring points against an opponent that never even showed up to the fight. Do you honestly think that most of the bigoted talk. mean-spirited jokes and actions against the South will go away if we just get rid of some flags? If so, I am all for it. I wish all prejudice was that easy to remedy. As I said upthread, folks like myself take notice. I apply the laugh test. Flying the rebel flag over the state capitol is preposterous. Statues and streets devoted to Forrest are ridiculous. (Easy fix: change the street name to Forest.) Take off the clown suit and stop slipping on banana peels and I will no longer laugh at you. My views of the Deep South have shifted over the past month. Just as they did when I learned of African American return migration to the region. As for individuals flying the so-called Confederate flag _wherever they live_, I apply the LHoD taxonomy: they are either bigots, ignorant folk or assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/292 "2015-07-04T23:02:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is an incredibly juvenile and simplistic analysis of what really happened – it was more like “this terrible thing happened, and the murderer used a symbol that many people rationally and reasonably consider a symbol of racist oppression… while this won’t fix the problem, maybe we should take down this symbol from state property because so many people reasonably find it offensive, and it really does represent racism to lots and lots of people, and this should have been done long ago… so let’s do it”. You forgot to add: "And it was explicitly stated to represent racism by the people in government when they put the thing on state government property. They even used the term “White man’s banner”. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/293 "2015-07-04T23:13:33Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > No. First of all I am not dumb in the least. Academic and work results demonstrate that quite well. Insults based on me being stupid always fall on deaf ears because, although I may not be the smartest person in world, I am in the top 1% although I can’t draw well to save my life. You have to pick a more appropriate insult. Douchebag or asshole are much better choices. The chances are outstanding that I am both smarter and make more money than you despite being a person raised in rural Louisiana. > > Are you personally dumb enough to think that black people are incapable of moving somewhere else that is more advantageous? A lot of them did and got burned by the experience. Los Angeles, Chicago and Detroit have black populations that have not fared well at all in general. There has been a reverse migration back to the South for many of them. That is ancestral home and the vast majority of Southerners know that and welcome them back. Lots of people are calling Shagnasty dumb and redneck and peckerwood and words like that. I don’t think he is stupid. I don’t think he is a bad person. I know a lot of people, presumably, a lot like him. I don’t agree with most of what Shagnasty says but but that does not make him stupid or a peckerwood. He has some issues he feels strongly about. Maybe, just maybe, and I’m really really not blaming anyone for anything, maybe if you listened to him a little more you might see he is simply trying to tell you the south is not as bad as you think it is. Or, maybe that it’s not entirely full of racists. Not that anyone is saying that exactly. It’s just that our debates get pretty heated. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/294 "2015-07-04T23:25:22Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > [The historical home of the blacks whose descendants were forced to live in The United States of America.](http://www.slaverysite.com/Body/maps.htm#map5) > > Against their will, doncha know. Hey, look! [No major slave route north of the Chesapeake except for those headed for Europe!](http://www.slaverysite.com/slave%20trade.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/295 "2015-07-04T23:32:17Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Lots of people are calling Shagnasty dumb and redneck and peckerwood and words like that. I don’t think he is stupid. I don’t think he is a bad person. I know a lot of people, presumably, a lot like him. I don’t agree with most of what Shagnasty says but but that does not make him stupid or a peckerwood. He has some issues he feels strongly about. Maybe, just maybe, and I’m really really not blaming anyone for anything, maybe if you listened to him a little more you might see he is simply trying to tell you the south is not as bad as you think it is. Or, maybe that it’s not entirely full of racists. Not that anyone is saying that exactly. It’s just that our debates get pretty heated. Thank you **Robert163** and I mean that sincerley. You summed it up quite well. I know I insulted you earlier but I want to apologize for that without any irony. I am not a bad person and so aren’t the vast majority of Southerners. It just gets really irritating to have to listen over and over how your whole region is fatally flawed and you can never escape it no matter what you do (simple flags won’t work; trust me - it will be something else next month). ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/296 "2015-07-04T23:40:50Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Thank you **Robert163** and I mean that sincerley. You summed it up quite well. I know I insulted you earlier but I want to apologize for that without any irony. I am not a bad person and so aren’t the vast majority of Southerners. It just gets really irritating to have to listen over and over how your whole region is fatally flawed and you can never escape it no matter what you do (simple flags won’t work; trust me - it will be something else next month). Well as long as I can cheer for the Georgia Bulldogs and you can cheer for the LSU Tigers, we will be ok 😉 Did people from Tulane cheer for LSU in SEC football? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/297 "2015-07-04T23:51:07Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > Google Frank Rizzo. YouTube him. Wikipedia him. Northern racists are just as despicable as Southern racists…and Western…and Eastern…and intercontinental. How about stop pointing fingers at others and work on your own part of the world? Jesus, I put out a contract on Rizzo in '91. What more can I do? Something I was thinking: Many southern whites were dirt farmers, hired hands, and other people too damn poor to own slaves and may have been jealous that slaves got three square meals a day–traditionally management takes better care of its livestock than its hirelings. I am familiar with how the American Dream has always been more aspirational than realistic for many people, where Pap Finn, barely eking out a living in a few acres of marshland, could dream of a house on the hill and slaves to fetch his jug, but Huck VI has only climbed (clumb? done clumb?) as high as a single-wide on the highest point in the marsh. This is his real background but is this the Southern Heritage he’s celebrating when flying that flag from his cliched 1990 F150, as seen in that video? 'Cuz plantations and magnolia blossoms and gallant cavaliers and beautiful southern belles are somebody else’s family history, not his. He comes from desperately-poor stock, same as the rest of us. His being from Down South is nothing special, just an accident of an ancestor who turned left instead of right when he got off the boat. Most of my kin left the Little House in the Big Woods as soon as they could. I never visited it and was surprised that my great-uncle didn’t sell it until a few years ago. I know my family history and have no need to celebrate my Cheesehead Heritage except at dinner. (BBQ ribs are nice, but terribly messy for the amount of meat you get. I’ll have a bratwurst on a bun with sauerkraut and good German mustard, thanks.) So why do so many Southerners cling to this fantasy of their own? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/298 "2015-07-05T00:01:03Z")
That you ‘know a lot of people like him’ only confirms what people think of the south, I’m afraid. Kinda lame apologists. Too tone deaf to hear no one has any patience for this bullshit any more. It’s the 21st freaking century! And there are still statues to persons who fought FOR slavery and their ilk commemorated at every turn? Public statuary, street names, etc. So tone deaf. And all this time later, still totally invested in glorifying persons bringing a country to war over the right to enslave others. Gloriously dying in the name of that cause. And they, gosh darn, just can’t understand why outsiders have such a problem with it! And then all butthurt because others perceive them to be backward, slow, behind and a little racist. At the very same time they are fighting their hardest to protect their rights to be all those things if they so choose! And can’t really understand why, oh why, do they see us in this negative way? ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/299 "2015-07-05T00:08:57Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > No. First of all I am not dumb in the least. Academic and work results demonstrate that quite well. Insults based on me being stupid always fall on deaf ears because, although I may not be the smartest person in world, I am in the top 1%… No, you’re not. > [@](#): > > This thread is about discrimination based on being born or living in the South. I thought that people would ask me for cites but they were not necessary because plenty of people were perfectly willing to spew hate speech based on nothing but a vague and general geographic description. Referring to the hateful acts of Southern racists is not hate speech, but keep fucking that chicken. > [@](#): > > Can you take a step back in your own mind and see why that just might be considered hypocrisy? Ok, I took a step back. Nope, no hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/300 "2015-07-05T00:16:08Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Lots of people are calling Shagnasty dumb and redneck and peckerwood and words like that. I don’t think he is stupid. I don’t think he is a bad person. I know a lot of people, presumably, a lot like him. I don’t agree with most of what Shagnasty says but but that does not make him stupid or a peckerwood. He has some issues he feels strongly about. Maybe, just maybe, and I’m really really not blaming anyone for anything, maybe if you listened to him a little more you might see he is simply trying to tell you the south is not as bad as you think it is. Or, maybe that it’s not entirely full of racists. Not that anyone is saying that exactly. It’s just that our debates get pretty heated. I’d say “Southern Apologist”, one step short of a Neo-Confederate. But he’s not stupid. However, he’s not getting the point… or he is getting it but refuses to back down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024.md?page=16)