# To all the ignorant people out there - stop making the South out to be some unique villain. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2015, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024 "2015-07-02T04:59:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/381 "2015-07-06T16:57:19Z")
Its Minnesota, Baja Canada, they were just being polite. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/382 "2015-07-06T17:07:57Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sorry, **Tibby** , but it’s ludicrous to claim that black people and white people lived mostly “in harmony” in the South after slavery. Black people were continual victims of terrorism in the South – lynchings, beatings, rapes, and the like were consistent threats for just being in the wrong place, using the wrong bathroom, or other such “crimes”. Black people were mostly unable to vote in huge swaths of the South for nearly a century after slavery ended. The KKK or white citizens’ councils ruled many towns, organizing to determine how best to keep the black population in their place. > > You’d know all this stuff if most of your information came from black sources (meaning black writers from the time, black journalists, black people over a certain age [and not just one or two, but dozens or hundreds]). You are correct; I should not have implied that things were peaches and cream between the races immediately after the Civil War. Atrocities continued for decades thereafter and Jim Crow existed into the mid-sixties. The south embraced slavery long after the north. But, I’m quite confident that if cotton was a temperate zone crop, the opposite would be true, unless you believe there is a genetic difference between white northerners and white southerners. I do believe the atrocities have been in decline since perhaps the 1930’s, but continued into the 60’s and are today rare, and no longer institutionalized. Racism in general persists, but also, in my opinion, has been in decline for decades. And, in my experience, it’s pretty evenly split between north and south today. Not from you, but from some others in this thread, I feel a subtle push into the racist side of the debate (because it’s easy to win a debate against a racist) and that is quite the opposite of my point: Racism and segregation persist in this county, but today it’s not concentrated solely in the south, its spread pretty evenly between north and south, in my experience and data appears to bear that out. I’m all for banning the confederate flag, and some people do wave it for its racist element. But, I believe, due to my talking with scores of rural southerners for 30 years, that the great majority of confederate flag wavers do so for its anti-Yankee sentiment and many have little knowledge of its slavery association. I don’t see a lot of well-educated southerners waving the confederate flag—it’s mostly the dumb ones. Putting myself in the place of an outside observer, perhaps someone from Europe who’s never traveled to this country, I think it’s fair to think, given the information they receive, that they believe slavery and racism and segregation in the US is strictly a southern thing, that the majority of southerners are rednecks, that the majority of rednecks are racist and racism runs rampant in everyday life. That’s just not true, not anymore. It’s an undeserved bad rap for present generation southerners. The North likes to point its finger at the South, because it lets them weasel out of their own accountability for racism. You may not agree with the political leanings of Clarence Thomas (and don’t accuse me of being a Fox News watcher…this just popped up first on my Google search), but his [quotes here] ([http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/supreme-court-justice-clarence-thomas-northern-liberals-are-more-racist-toward-me-than-southerners](http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/supreme-court-justice-clarence-thomas-northern-liberals-are-more-racist-toward-me-than-southerners)) are appropriate to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/383 "2015-07-06T17:11:49Z")
I’m no great admirer of Clarence Thomas. But he voted _with The Usual Liberal Suspects in the recent ruling that told the Sons of Confedreate Veterans that the State of Texas was not_ required to put the Battle Flag on license plates. Anyone still using that symbol (wherever they live) is pretty much White Trash. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/384 "2015-07-06T17:23:56Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > …Anyone still using that symbol (wherever they live) is pretty much White Trash. Agreed, but white trash does not always = racist (though it often does). It does equate to single wides, missing teeth, carbo-rich diets, low IQ, multiple genetic malformations, fibromyalgia, dozens of kids of questionable parentage, a love of Mountain Do and Twinkies and more than one Pit Bull tied up in their back yard. But, don’t tell me all white trash is from the south; I saw lots of them up north, too. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/385 "2015-07-06T17:29:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Personally, I’ve decided as a Northerner to stop cowtowing to the PC police as well. I’m putting my Uncle Ben’s Converted Rice flag back up on my car tonight. Why not include Aunt Jemima? Are you a misogynist, too? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/386 "2015-07-06T17:29:52Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > You are correct; I should not have implied that things were peaches and cream between the races immediately after the Civil War. Atrocities continued for decades thereafter and Jim Crow existed into the mid-sixties. The south embraced slavery long after the north. But, I’m quite confident that if cotton was a temperate zone crop, the opposite would be true, unless you believe there is a genetic difference between white northerners and white southerners. Sure, but I don’t see how this is a defense, excuse, or justification. The ‘accusations’ (or at least my accusations) are against Southern culture (and for the most part, Southern white culture), tradition, etc., and the resistance that many Southern white people show to the truth of how truly awful so much of their culture and traditions were to black people in the South until quite recently. There’s nothing uniquely evil about any of this, and much of it was present in many parts of the rest of the US as well. But that’s no excuse at all – it’s just a recognition that many of America’s sins were sins of the country as a whole (though, again, many parts of the South were worse on and/or extended some of these sins for decades longer than many parts of the North). > [@](#): > > I’m all for banning the confederate flag, and some people do wave it for its racist element. But, I believe, due to my talking with scores of rural southerners for 30 years, that the great majority of confederate flag wavers do so for its anti-Yankee sentiment and many have little knowledge of its slavery association. I don’t see a lot of well-educated southerners waving the confederate flag—it’s mostly the dumb ones. This might be true, but again it’s not a defense – they definitely have the opportunity to know the truth, and that they choose not to shows (to me, at least) a consistent disregard for the opinions of the majority of black Americans, at best. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/387 "2015-07-06T18:13:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Sure, but I don’t see how this is a defense, excuse, or justification. The ‘accusations’ (or at least my accusations) are against Southern culture (and for the most part, Southern white culture), tradition, etc., and the resistance that many Southern white people show to the truth of how truly awful so much of their culture and traditions were to black people in the South until quite recently. > > There’s nothing uniquely evil about any of this, and much of it was present in many parts of the rest of the US as well. But that’s no excuse at all – it’s just a recognition that many of America’s sins were sins of the country as a whole (though, again, many parts of the South were worse on and/or extended some of these sins for decades longer than many parts of the North). I’m not trying to mount a defense, excuse or justification for the actions of modern southerners, because in my experience, they are no more or less racist than anyone else. In fact, on reflection, I believe I am a racist. I’m racist against old, white women. On average, I would much rather spend time with an old black woman than an old white woman—they are typically more pleasant to chat with and more appreciative of my services (no, not sexual, you perverts). > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This might be true, but again it’s not a defense – they definitely have the opportunity to know the truth, and that they choose not to shows (to me, at least) a consistent disregard for the opinions of the majority of black Americans, at best. Sorry, I’m not going to put on a cape and become the _Defender of Dumb People_. Maybe they have an excuse. They could have been dropped on their head during delivery; maybe they became hypoxic and subsequently brain damaged choking on a peach pit; maybe their parents were the same ones who bore Honey Boo Boo…who knows, but I give stupid people like that a pass. It’s not their fault they’re stupid and don’t understand the association of the confederate flag with slavery. If they are stupid because they smoked too much weed instead of attending classes, then yeah, it’s their fault and they should be shot in the head for being an idiot and a bigot. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/388 "2015-07-06T18:23:41Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Maybe the OP should have started a thread to blast these ignorant, uh, yahoos for causing negative impressions of the South. > > [http://news.yahoo.com/nascar-fans-defend-display-confederate-flags-daytona-172016660--spt.html](http://news.yahoo.com/nascar-fans-defend-display-confederate-flags-daytona-172016660--spt.html) > > … > > “It’s nothing racist or anything. I’ve been doing this for 30 years.” “It’s not that _I’m_ racist. I just like defiantly displaying a symbol that I know full well is widely _interpreted_ as racist. It’s a Southern pride thing; the South is the type of place where people don’t really bat an eye if you display a symbol that’s widely interpreted as promoting racism, and I’m pretty proud of that.” ETA: I just realized. Non-racist person displaying the confederate flag == real-life trolling. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/389 "2015-07-06T18:36:50Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > I’m not trying to mount a defense, excuse or justification for the actions of modern southerners, because in my experience, they are no more or less racist than anyone else. Perhaps, or perhaps not, but they/we (Southern white people – I am in fact a Southern white person, having grown up in Louisiana and Arkansas) still seem to be more likely to accept and defend inaccurate mythology of the South that is dismissive of the real experiences of black people in the region. I think that’s the main thing that is criticized – you immediately backed off the “living in harmony” stuff, but in my experience that is quite a common belief for Southern white people… that race relations used to be good and respectful (in the “good 'ol days”) and have only been ‘poisoned’ recently. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/390 "2015-07-06T19:34:55Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I grew up in St. Louis, which is pretty much a Southern city. It was super racist. My Facebook page tells me that it continues to be so. > … St. Louis? Seriously? Hells bells, you dudes are nothing but southern posers. You’re about midway between the Deep South and Canada! In fact, I hereby decree that Missouri be henceforth classified as a Midwest/Northern state. We Southern states want nothing to do with the likes of you…you blatant racists. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/391 "2015-07-06T19:37:50Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > St. Louis? Seriously? Hells bells, you dudes are nothing but southern posers. You’re about midway between the Deep South and Canada!. I LOLed. Nice contributions to this thread btw Tibby. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/392 "2015-07-06T19:39:52Z")
> [@pool](#): > > Apropos of mostly nothing after looking up The Dukes of Hazzard on Amazon I came across some pretty bizarre books: > > [http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/141207178X/ref=mp\_s\_a\_1\_3?qid=1436172464&sr=8-3&pi=AC\_SY200\_QL40&keywords=confederate+flag&dpPl=1&dpID=414QcLDljwL&ref=plSrch](http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/141207178X/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1436172464&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SY200_QL40&keywords=confederate+flag&dpPl=1&dpID=414QcLDljwL&ref=plSrch) Wow. Who on this planet has that displayed in their personal library? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/393 "2015-07-06T19:40:39Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > St. Louis? Seriously? Hells bells, you dudes are nothing but southern posers. You’re about midway between the Deep South and Canada! > > In fact, I hereby decree that Missouri be henceforth classified as a Midwest/Northern state. We Southern states want nothing to do with the likes of you…you blatant racists. I don’t really care what Missouri gets called. I did think they wanted/want to be southern. In terms of slave state/free state they were so torn as to have two separate state governments, and to have a governor lead state troops against the federal government. That’s good enough for me. Walks like the south, talks like the south, rides around in the back of pickup trucks with no shirt on… ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/394 "2015-07-06T20:37:42Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I LOLed. > > Nice contributions to this thread btw Tibby. I’ve always liked you **billfish678** (strictly in a platonic fashion, mind you), you’re a funny [del]looking[/del] person, but more importantly, you have excellent judgement with regard to the excellence of other poster’s posts. But,\*\* billfish677\*\*? That idiot was a real tool! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/395 "2015-07-06T20:51:46Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Wow. Who on this planet has that displayed in their personal library? You know what else is shocking? There’s a book entitled "The Confederate Battle Flag: America’s Most Embattled Emblem " about the history of said flag. Fairly unbiased. But has scads of one start reviews from people who did not read the book, but just hate the flag. :eek:☹ ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/396 "2015-07-06T22:14:04Z")
[QUOTE=iiandyiiii] I am in fact a Southern white person [/QUOTE] (Audience in chorus): "Hello, **iiandyiii!"** ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/397 "2015-07-06T22:29:25Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Perhaps, or perhaps not, but they/we (Southern white people – I am in fact a Southern white person, having grown up in Louisiana and Arkansas) still seem to be more likely to accept and defend inaccurate mythology of the South that is dismissive of the real experiences of black people in the region. I think that’s the main thing that is criticized – you immediately backed off the “living in harmony” stuff, but in my experience that is quite a common belief for Southern white people… that race relations used to be good and respectful (in the “good 'ol days”) and have only been ‘poisoned’ recently. I thought in one of the racism discussion you said you were black. No? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/398 "2015-07-06T22:35:35Z")
No, he was just raised a poor white child in the south. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/399 "2015-07-06T22:39:20Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Northern California progressives talk a good game but the fact of the matter is that whatever they think they are doing isn’t working as well as it is in the South where people of all races and income levels can live and interact with one another daily. “All” races? Silicon Valley (where I live) is incredibly integrated between white and Asian (East and South). Much less so with Hispanic and black populations, which is a problem that plenty of people are aware of, but to act like the affluent bay area is lily white is just flat out wrong. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/400 "2015-07-06T22:41:41Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I thought in one of the racism discussion you said you were black. No? Nope. Do you have a cite? If you’re curious about my biological-ethnic background, I discussed it in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=716687). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024.md?page=21)