# To all the ignorant people out there - stop making the South out to be some unique villain. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 2, 2015, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024 "2015-07-02T04:59:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/101 "2015-07-02T17:33:00Z")
> [@CinnamonBabka](#): > > I also can’t put a Nazi flag up in my window and expect people to not think I’m an inconsiderate douchenozel, no matter how much I insist I’m doing it to celebrate German heritage and not the murder of millions of people. No. I agree there will not be much confusion about that. I kind of knew that, but thanks for filling me in. I have said that you shouldn’t display the confederate flag unless you want to identify as a racist. I hope you saw that. In light of that, I still don’t get where we disagree or how you are trying to enlighten me to something that isn’t painfully obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/102 "2015-07-02T17:34:26Z")
ETA@Hentor : Maryland’s a big old nympho and everybody knows, don’t worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/103 "2015-07-02T17:34:28Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > asking you to atone for anything your ancestors have done. Why don’t we skip the atonement, and just nicely ask that they stop celebrating them? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/104 "2015-07-02T17:36:22Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > 1. There was a time when the Confederate flag was about short denim shorts on hot girls, fast cars, beer, Lynyrd Skynyrd, moonshine, and showing people that you were an anti-yuppie who was fun loving and unpretentious. It meant racist things before that time, and it means racist things now, but there may be some legitimate confusion or backlash by some well-meaning and let’s face it… Slow-minded individuals who’s perceptions are still stuck in 1980s Hazard County. You can see these people on You Tube all the time. Usually under “Redneck fail” They are the ones who attempt to jump their trucks over ravines and are inexplicably shocked when their suspension collapses, tires pop, airbags deploy, and their $50,000 Ford Raptor is destroyed before they’ve made their third payment. We are going to have to be patient with these people. I don’t want to sound like an apologist but this is a good summary of the situation. It was stupid and thoughtless, but not intended to be offensive. It may have even have been an attempt to give the Confederate Battle Flag a non-racist image. It’s a weak point in this controversy, but it is still offensive and TVLand should have realized that before now. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/105 "2015-07-02T17:39:40Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > But the South is a unique villain in the USA … no other region has such a nasty reputation of racism, under-education or government corruption. With the possible exception of Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/106 "2015-07-02T17:45:25Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So let me get this straight. > Say I am a European, good willing, irreverent, playful little scamp (eh, good 'nuff) > Say I choose to wave the Nazi Reich’s flag around because, for **me** , it represents an intellectually courageous challenging of the current European status quo, pride in one’s nation (regardless of which nation it is), an advocacy for public order [del]and killing all the Jews[/del]. Or any other bullshit you might care to come up with as “innocent” reasons to fly the Nazi fucking flag. > You wouldn’t condemn me for possibly maybe being either a humongous shithead at worst, a complete idiot at best ? Like, \*really \*? I don’t think that the nazi flag is a pretty unambiguous symbol. I think the confederate flag is an unambiguous symbol right now. However, I cite the famous Dukes of Hazard/lynyrd Skynyrd precedent as evidence that this has not always been so, and that there are currently people out there who are attached to the Confederate Flag who nevertheless oppose slavery and racism. Admittedly, these folks may be a little slow on the uptake, but the quarrel is really not with them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/107 "2015-07-02T18:00:52Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > The current Texas flag was adopted in 1933. Before it became a state, the Texas flag was a blue background with a yellow “Lone Star” on it. In 1933, the state legislature merely made official the design first adopted in 1839 by the Republic of Texas. From 1879-1933 it was unofficial. The flag you describe—yellow star on a blue field—was an older flag of the Republic of Texas, the Burnet Flag of 1836-1839. It was displaced by the Lone Star Flag as the main Texan flag in 1839, but was used as the “war flag” until 1879. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/108 "2015-07-02T18:01:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t want to sound like an apologist but this is a good summary of the situation. It was stupid and thoughtless, but not intended to be offensive. It may have even have been an attempt to give the Confederate Battle Flag a non-racist image. It’s a weak point in this controversy, but it is still offensive and TVLand should have realized that before now. Times really have changed. I still have this really nice handmade wallet that I got Circa 1985 with the Confederate flag on it, that I got at a fair or a Skynyrd tribute band concert in Louisiana when I was in College. It seemed totally innocuous. I think it was somewhere around 1995 that I took it out of my wallet and cringed internally. I got another wallet and through the old one in a drawer somewhere. Times had changed. That wallet no longer meant what it did when I bought it, or maybe it had reverted back to its original meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/109 "2015-07-02T18:01:23Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > With the possible exception of Chicago. And Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/110 "2015-07-02T18:18:09Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I don’t think that the nazi flag is a pretty unambiguous symbol. I think the confederate flag is an unambiguous symbol right now. However, I cite the famous Dukes of Hazard/lynyrd Skynyrd precedent as evidence that this has not always been so, and that there are currently people out there who are attached to the Confederate Flag who nevertheless oppose slavery and racism. Admittedly, these folks may be a little slow on the uptake, but the quarrel is really not with them. I put it to you that the Dukes of Hazzard precedent doesn’t significantly alter the current paradigm of “complete fucking idiot for not realizing the implications / humongous shithead for not caring or actually endorsing them”, because the facts both historical and current that led to this assessment were already in play back in the 80s, on account of it’s not like the Confederate Flag suddenly gained unfortunate connotations in 2015. Retort. Or tell me a story as funny as the blimp one, that’d work for me too :o. I mean, I \*know \*the past is a different country and all that. And as a budding historian I know judging historical facts by the standards of today is not just academical sin, it’s also pretty darn dumb and unfair. And I have learned to just politely shut up when my grandmother starts mumbling that Them Jews are okay but really when you think about it they’re really not and they’re an insular bunch with divided loyalties and you would not \*believe \*what those bastards did to our Ron (or words to that effect). That doesn’t change the fact that my beloved gram-gram, who suffered through WW2 with a husband in the Resistance who knows where, who raised me when my parents were too busy being soulless yuppies to, who busted her arse sore every sorry fucking day god ever gave her and never asked for a penny nor a word of thanks in return, who still believes in the all-encompassing kindness of The Lord when her man died after long months of agony with liver & lung cancer, for whom I have all the love in the world and whose passing I will bitterly weep and gnash my teeth for if and when it comes… is a stupid, bigoted cunt. Inna final analysis and when it comes right down to it. About “negroes” and brown people, too. ---
**Author:** ![CinnamonBabka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@CinnamonBabka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CinnamonBabka)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/111 "2015-07-02T18:18:38Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > No. I agree there will not be much confusion about that. I kind of knew that, but thanks for filling me in. > > I have said that you shouldn’t display the confederate flag unless you want to identify as a racist. I hope you saw that. In light of that, I still don’t get where we disagree or how you are trying to enlighten me to something that isn’t painfully obvious. Because the state of South Carolina is flying that flag at their state Capitol. People are offended that the state is celebrating a symbol that’s associated with bigotry under the guise of celebrating their heritage. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/112 "2015-07-02T18:27:22Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > I’ve lived in Texas for my entire life. I have never heard that the Texas flag is based on the Confederate flag at all. I mean, there’s red and white and blue, and a star, so I can see some similarities, but when I think of red, white, and blue with stripes and stars, I think of another flag first. So do I, but is the Cuban experience especially relevant here? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/113 "2015-07-02T18:36:08Z")
Witnessing a slave auction in New Orleans was reportedly what turned a certain Illinois lawyer dead set against slavery: > [@](#): > > [Experiences with Slavery](http://www.mrlincolnandfreedom.org/inside.asp?ID=5&subjectID=2) > > “One morning in their rambles over the city the trio passed a slave auction. A vigorous and comely mulatto girl was being sold. She underwent a through examination at the hands of the bidders; they pinched her flesh and made her trot up and down the room like a horse, to show how she moved, and in order, as the auctioneer said, that ‘bidders might satisfy themselves’ whether the article they were offering to buy was sound or not. The whole thing was so revolting that Lincoln moved away from the scene with a deep feeling of ‘unconquerable hate.’ Bidding his companions follow him he said, 'By God, boys, let’s get away from this. If ever I get a chance to hit that thing [meaning slavery], I’ll hit it hard.” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/114 "2015-07-02T18:38:49Z")
> [@CinnamonBabka](#): > > Because the state of South Carolina is flying that flag at their state Capitol. People are offended that the state is celebrating a symbol that’s associated with bigotry under the guise of celebrating their heritage. I think they have no business doing so, and should take it down. Like I said, I think that the only legitimate reason to fly the confederate flag is to let the world know that you are racist. If that is not your intent you should not fly it. I still don’t see what our disagreement is. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/115 "2015-07-02T18:42:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I put it to you that the Dukes of Hazzard precedent doesn’t significantly alter the current paradigm of “complete fucking idiot for not realizing the implications / humongous shithead for not caring or actually endorsing them”, because the facts both historical and current that led to this assessment were already in play back in the 80s, on account of it’s not like the Confederate Flag suddenly gained unfortunate connotations in 2015. > > Retort. Or tell me a story as funny as the blimp one, that’d work for me too :o. > > I mean, I \*know \*the past is a different country and all that. And as a budding historian I know judging historical facts by the standards of today is not just academical sin, it’s also pretty darn dumb and unfair. And I have learned to just politely shut up when my grandmother starts mumbling that Them Jews are okay but really when you think about it they’re really not and they’re an insular bunch with divided loyalties and you would not \*believe \*what those bastards did to our Ron (or words to that effect). > > That doesn’t change the fact that my beloved gram-gram, who suffered through WW2 with a husband in the Resistance who knows where, who raised me when my parents were too busy being soulless yuppies to, who busted her arse sore every sorry fucking day god ever gave her and never asked for a penny nor a word of thanks in return, who still believes in the all-encompassing kindness of The Lord when her man died after long months of agony with liver & lung cancer, for whom I have all the love in the world and whose passing I will bitterly weep and gnash my teeth for if and when it comes… is a stupid, bigoted cunt. Inna final analysis and when it comes right down to it. > > About “negroes” and brown people, too. Thanks for that. I think a lot of things fall into the category of it seemed like a good idea in the 1980s but looks pretty dumb in hindsight. The acceptability of the confederate flag during that time frame is probably a prime example. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/116 "2015-07-02T18:47:20Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > The fuck are you smoking ? The tribes were not “given permission to open casinos”. They were given permission to decide their own laws within their tiny enclaves. Actually, they kind of were [‘given permission’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Gaming_Regulatory_Act) by the federal government and the states the reservations lie in. ---
**Author:** ![CinnamonBabka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bbce88/32.png) [@CinnamonBabka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CinnamonBabka)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/117 "2015-07-02T18:47:42Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I think they have no business doing so, and should take it down. Like I said, I think that the only legitimate reason to fly the confederate flag is to let the world know that you are racist. If that is not your intent you should not fly it. > > I still don’t see what our disagreement is. The state governments in the southern states seem to have no interest in removing a racist symbol from public buildings. They’re pretty unique in doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/118 "2015-07-02T18:55:06Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yes but with a bit of audio editing/muting and bit of CGI for the top of the car… all of a sudden you have a great show!!! I mean seriously, that show boils down to two factors: Rosco and Boss Hogg. They are sooooo funny. No way, dude that’s stupid. I agree that the Confederate flag needs to come down, but c’mon, show DOH like it was originally, or don’t show it at all. Your idea just sounds completely retarded. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/119 "2015-07-02T19:03:01Z")
Just an little PSA, the Dukes were from Hazzard County (two z’s). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024/120 "2015-07-02T19:03:17Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Actually, they kind of were [‘given permission’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Gaming_Regulatory_Act) by the federal government and the states the reservations lie in. Eh, depends where you’re looking at it from. From my POV this piece of legislation is more about “they’re doing this, can we shut it down without a huge, possibly lawsuit-worthy and in any case hugely bothersome stink ?” than “We’ll graciously allow it”. With a side order of “OY ! We want a cut of the action !”. Also, and completely unrelated to this particular piece of legislation, [when do we stop calling them Indians](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9VMY8X9rU8) ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-all-the-ignorant-people-out-there-stop-making-the-south-out-to-be-some-unique-villain/724024.md?page=7)