# To anyone who supports so-called "2nd amendment solutions". **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 8, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386 "2016-07-08T13:53:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/21 "2016-07-09T00:36:16Z")
[Oath Keepers is at it again:](http://www.dailykos.com/?detail=action&page=2) > [@](#): > > Labeling Black Lives Matter a “radical leftist group” and likening the recent incidents of violence to “the wave of terrorism we saw in the late 60s and early 70s by the Marxist Weather Underground and related groups,” Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes wrote on the group’s website: > > What is now needed, more than ever, is the reestablishment of the militia of the people, trained, equipped and organized in each town, to defend against what is now clearly a “Tet Offensive” American style, as Navy SEAL veteran Matt Bracken warned. While we work to reestablish that militia system, you must go armed at all times, and be prepared, at all times, to defend your community against these Marxist terrorists as well as their Islamist terror allies. Remember, they are in league, and you are their common enemy and their common targets. > > The power elites who control, aid, abet and fund these terrorists will attempt to use these attacks to further destroy what little is left of our Constitution, but the one thing they do not want, and the one thing they truly fear, is for We the People, who are still armed, to come together and restore the militia of the several states. And the elites’ terrorist proxies among the Marxists and Islamacists also fear such a revitalization and restoration. … ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/22 "2016-07-09T00:50:07Z")
> [@andros](#): > > …and didn’t actually murder anyone. Neither did Alton Sterling or Philando Castile. Or Eric Garner or Michael Brown or John Crawford or Jonathan Sanders or Sandra Bland or Tamir Rice or Eric Harris or Walter Scott or Jonathan Ferrell or Samuel DuBose or Trayvon Martin. I wonder why these people got killed and the Bundys didn’t. If only there was some common factor that linked all of them… ---
**Author:** ![Psychopants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Psychopants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psychopants)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/23 "2016-07-09T01:05:05Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > The shooter was exmilitary. You wanna run that “liberal activist” line by me one more time? I’m ex military. And a liberal activist. But I don’t have a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/24 "2016-07-09T01:17:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Oath Keepers is at it again:](http://www.dailykos.com/?detail=action&page=2) Wow. The “power elites” (Jews, I would imagine) are in league with Marxists and Islamists. I wasn’t aware there were any Marxists around anymore to speak of, let alone that the current crop had aligned themselves with a movement that wants to establish a theocracy. That’s something I would not have expected. Learn something new every day. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/25 "2016-07-09T03:04:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Neither did Alton Sterling or Philando Castile. Or Eric Garner or Michael Brown or John Crawford or Jonathan Sanders or Sandra Bland or Tamir Rice or Eric Harris or Walter Scott or Jonathan Ferrell or Samuel DuBose or Trayvon Martin. > > I wonder why these people got killed and the Bundys didn’t. If only there was some common factor that linked all of them… Oh, oh, can I guess? They were all criminals and thugs, whereas the Bundy clan are good churchgoin’ patriots? (Wait, I feel like you’re going somewhere even simpler than that…) :sardonicwinksmiliewhichshouldtotallybeathing: ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/26 "2016-07-09T03:20:53Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > This is what it looks like assholes. Are you happy now? That was exactly my thought. And this: > [@Slash1972](#): > > Didn’t somebody once say this: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants” ? was indeed said by someone, specifically, by an asshole. Thomas Jefferson may have been brilliant and may have had one of the best political minds in history, but he was a fuckin asshole. He said this about Shay’s Rebellion, in which a bunch of impoverished and desperate farmers, losing their lands due to crazy-high taxes voted in by the merchants who controlled the legislature, rebelled against what they saw as taxation without representation. Note what Jefferson said just before that quote: > [@Jefferson](#): > > what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms. the remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. what signify a few lives lost in a century or two? Those five officers killed? What, Jefferson asks, do a few lives signify? Asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/27 "2016-07-09T03:45:32Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > This is what it looks like assholes. Are you happy now? I completely agree and am glad that Micah Johnson was stopped, before he could murder more innocent police officers, for his use of 2nd amendment solutions. My thoughts and prayers go out to you. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/28 "2016-07-09T03:47:26Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Wow. The “power elites” (Jews, I would imagine) are in league with Marxists and Islamists. I wasn’t aware there were any Marxists around anymore to speak of, let alone that the current crop had aligned themselves with a movement that wants to establish a theocracy. That’s something I would not have expected. Learn something new every day. [Playing too many games](http://940ee6dce6677fa01d25-0f55c9129972ac85d6b1f4e703468e6b.r99.cf2.rackcdn.com/products/pictures/139922.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/29 "2016-07-09T03:50:49Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > Their movement did: > > [Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_P._Murrah_Federal_Building) > > Teh patriot movement, militia members, tax protesters, sovereign or state citizens, quasi-Christian apocalypticists, and white supremacists sprout from a handful of idealists. Many of the writings they hold as gospel can be traced backed to the Aryan Nations. > > The Oath Keepers, the White Mountain Militia, and the Praetorian Guard are not full of fluff, they are very dangerous indeed. Interesting idea. Let’s apply it some other cases: Islam, the religion, is responsible for the 9/11 attacks. BLM is responsible for the cop killings yesterday. Alternatively, we can blame the folks who actually did the killing. Or would that be too inconvenient, politically? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/30 "2016-07-09T05:38:18Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Didn’t somebody once say this: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants” ? A crazy person said that ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/31 "2016-07-09T06:02:14Z")
Eh. He didn’t say “Every time some nuts go around killing people, it’s a good thing”. In the times he lived, it was true enough. It may not be as common going forward, but I’d be surprised if it never happened again. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/32 "2016-07-09T07:17:25Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Wow. The “power elites” (Jews, I would imagine) are in league with Marxists and Islamists. You left out the Rand Corporation, the saucer people, and the reverse vampires. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/33 "2016-07-09T15:41:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That was exactly my thought. And this: > > was indeed said by someone, specifically, by an asshole. Thomas Jefferson may have been brilliant and may have had one of the best political minds in history, but he was a fuckin asshole. He said this about Shay’s Rebellion, in which a bunch of impoverished and desperate farmers, losing their lands due to crazy-high taxes voted in by the merchants who controlled the legislature, rebelled against what they saw as taxation without representation. > > Note what Jefferson said just before that quote: > > Those five officers killed? What, Jefferson asks, do a few lives signify? Then again, TJ (who tends to be revered by the likes of the Oath Breakers and other wannabe warriors of a fantasy nation that never was) has as his masterwork and letter of presentation _a document justifying armed insurrection_. So he felt pretty much committed to maintaining a position that such is part of the natural order of things, and that the role of the established state when faced with that would be “to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them”. I get the feeling he did not mean through academic debate. The deal here and now is of course a part of all these debates: what _ **is** _ the point at which you have valid armed resistance or people’s revolution, instead of criminal terrorism or just some wackos acting out? The cynics say once they win and get to write the story. But let’s be honest, what happens if the uprising against the Oppressive State happens NOT among the “Minutemen”, Oath Breakers, Free Land people, Restorationists, etc. but among urban minorities? The “Patriots” are going to be standing right by the side of the “Evil Government” to crush that uprising, is what will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386/34 "2016-07-09T22:15:23Z")
Jefferson’s theory of revolution in greater detail. Emphasis added, context included. [INDENT][INDENT]We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. [/INDENT][/INDENT] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-anyone-who-supports-so-called-2nd-amendment-solutions/759386.md?page=1)