# To Czarcasm, fyi **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 24, 2004, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264 "2004-08-24T14:06:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/41 "2004-08-25T11:15:48Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > For the rest of you, I used the words “set a trap” and “poisoning” and I stand by them. Keeping her legally prescribed (to her) meds in her purse is not “setting a trap”. “Poisoning” doesn’t even come into it. **Indy** ’s co-worker is not supposed to be taking any meds that belong to someone else\*. If they’re poisonous to her, that’s unfortunate, but they’re not poisonous to the bearer of the prescription. > [@](#): > > I did not say “murderer”, nor do I say it now. Fair enough. But I was paraphrasing, and you were condemning **Indy** in a somewhat hysterical tone. > [@](#): > > I doubt that a single dose could kill a person, though it could land the person in the hospital. I also said she “wasn’t thinking at all” when she took the actions she did. She wasn’t thinking, and took action that was really really dumb that could easily have ended up with the theif being harmed. That’s wrong. Think before you act. No, stealing is wrong. What happens to someone who steals is their own responsibility. Suppose **Indy** had put breath mints in her pill bottle? Those are innocuous, to all except people who have allergic reactions to mint. And suppose that was how everyone in the office found out co-worker was one of those people? Anaphylactic shock would be bad, but it would still be the co-worker’s actions that led to it. > [@](#): > > There were other suggestions that she could have taken, indeed she ordered an alarm. She was (with the exception of handing out her prescription medicines, which only she could legally swallow) the injured party both legally and morally until she set that trap. **She did not set a trap.** She configured her own legally prescribed (to her) meds. Suppose co-worker was siphoning gas, and started by sucking on the hose, and accidentally ingested gasoline. Was the owner of the car setting a trap by having gas in hir tank? > [@](#): > > I made a stand, and spoke my mind on what is right. This is honorable, and I actually don’t mean **Indygrrl** harm, I hope she learns and grows from this mistake. I stand by my words, and my opinion. Some don’t agree with it, so be it. I respect that, and I ask that you pause a moment, and respect me for standing by what I believe in. I stated my thoughts on this matter respectfully here in this thread, I ask for respect in return. **Get. Off. The. Cross.** \*Though I will concede the point about **Indy** willingly sharing her meds. Still doesn’t excuse what the co-worker’s been doing since then, though. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/42 "2004-08-25T11:19:05Z")
Let me also ask, if she knew her prescription medicines were at risk of being stolen, why is it that she only put **some** of the medicine in her pocket, (the pain pills) and let others (anti-inflammatories, anti-depressants) in her purse, where they could be stolen? Why would she do that, what motive could there be behind such an action? I think she’s too smart to make a mistake like that, so that’s another reason I think the medicines were left with the purpose of being “found” and “liberated”. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/43 "2004-08-25T11:21:58Z")
I’ll also observe that it’s an interesting coincidence that the prescription medicines she chose to leave in her purse “looked similar” to the pain medicine that was being stolen. It doesn’t add up, is what I’m saying. The important thing is, she sees how it was a big mistake, and I don’t think she’ll let it happen again. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/44 "2004-08-25T11:38:03Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I hate to act like a junior mod and all, but since the original thread is still closed, it might not be the best idea in the world to keep talking about the subject in a different thread. No, it’s ok because we’ve all decided that **Czarcasm** ’s decision was wrong :). ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/45 "2004-08-25T11:44:21Z")
**Zabali\_Clawbane** has a serious case of cephalo-caudal inversion. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/46 "2004-08-25T11:44:34Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > Let me also ask, if she knew her prescription medicines were at risk of being stolen, why is it that she only put **some** of the medicine in her pocket, (the pain pills) and let others (anti-inflammatories, anti-depressants) in her purse … ? Maybe it’s because the pain pills were the ones being stolen. Jackass. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/47 "2004-08-25T12:03:29Z")
> [@](#): > > **Zabali\_Clawbane** said: > Why would she do that, what motive could there be behind such an action? Because the pain pills were the ones likely to be stolen. Do you always blame the victims of theft for the actions of the thief, **Zabali**? Because you either always have your head up your ass regarding theft, or it’s just in this case that you have your head up your ass. I read both of the threads, and I have yet to see anything (other than initially giving the co-worker some of the pain medicine) that **Indygrrl** did wrong. She kept her medication in her purse in a manner that was most convenient to her. It’s not her obligation to make sure that there are only pills in her own purse that won’t harm a theif. You over-reacted in a big way, and you still are. If **Indygrrl** has things in her purse, it is reasonable for her to expect that her co-workers will not steal them, and it’s also reasonable to hope the co-worker gets comeuppance from stealing the medication that **Indygrrl** needs in order to live her life. Hoping the co-worker boots is a rather normal response. Now, had she said she hoped the co-worker would end up dead from it, that might be different. But that’s not what she did. She hoped the co-worker would boot all over, and she hoped the co-worker would be caught. There’s also no reason for her to keep all of her medication out of her purse, because, get this **Zabali** , _the co-worker should never be in **Indygrrl** ’s purse in the first place._ It’d be like if someone who knew their gas was being stolen out of their car hoped the thief got booting sick. Instead I suppose you’d suggest that they keep all of their gasoline in a can they carry around with them, or build a garage with a security system to keep the thief out, because even a locking gas cap could be defeated. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/48 "2004-08-25T12:20:12Z")
Nowhere did I say the theif was an inoccent lamb, nor did I say anything about it not being wrong for medicines to be stolen. In fact I expressed sympathy for **Indygrrl** ’s plight. However, she wasn’t careful, and wasn’t thinking clearly, and her actions could have made the theif very ill indeed. It’s not just that the pain pills were the ones likely to be stolen, but anything that looked like them, as she herself mused upon. What is it about this concept that is so hard for some of you to grasp? She realized this, and still left look alike pills unattended, not a bright move, whatever the true motives and intentions behind it were. Btw, [spinoff thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=272907) ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/49 "2004-08-25T12:24:24Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > Nowhere did I say the theif was an inoccent lamb, nor did I say anything about it not being wrong for medicines to be stolen. In fact I expressed sympathy for **Indygrrl** ’s plight. However, she wasn’t careful, and wasn’t thinking clearly, and her actions could have made the theif very ill indeed. So. The fuck. WHAT! How hard is THAT concept to understand? If a thief gets hurt while thieving does anyone really give a rat’s ass? ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/50 "2004-08-25T12:27:14Z")
I’d think that if the injury could be proven to have occured because of a substitution made with the intent to make the theif ill, then the prosecutors would give a rat’s ass for one. Her statements made in that thread could be shown to prove “motive”. Maybe I am mistaken, lets see what the people with legal knowledge have to say in the spinoff thread I started in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![Anonymous\_Coward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@Anonymous\_Coward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonymous_Coward)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/51 "2004-08-25T12:30:07Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > I’d think that if the injury could be proven to have occured because of a substitution made with the intent to make the theif ill, then the prosecutors would give a rat’s ass for one. Her statements made in that thread could be shown to prove “motive”. Maybe I am mistaken, lets see what the people with legal knowledge have to say in the spinoff thread I started in GQ. I think you need to go back to watching Law and Order. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/52 "2004-08-25T12:34:04Z")
Given that stern warnings have been given to posters who suggested spiking things with over the counter medications like laxatives, (and I believe it was also mentioned that people got into legal trouble over such things) I think there is actually a basis for my perceptions in reality, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/53 "2004-08-25T12:38:39Z")
> [@Silentgoldfish](#): > > So. The fuck. WHAT! > > How hard is THAT concept to understand? If a thief gets hurt while thieving does anyone really give a rat’s ass? If it can be shown that through willful negligence you may have caused said injury, _your_ ass may be in deep kim chee. It is the job of the _court system_ to met out punishment-setting “traps” can backfire badly, both legally and physically. As far as the substitution of prescription drugs is concerned, either purposefully or “accidentally”, you cannot know how a person will react to a medication. There could be allergies or bad interactions with drugs already being taken. If you feel that someone is stealing from you, _report it to the proper authorities, and ask their advice on how to proceed from there._ ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/54 "2004-08-25T12:39:59Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > Given that stern warnings have been given to posters who suggested spiking things with over the counter medications like laxatives, (and I believe it was also mentioned that people got into legal trouble over such things) I think there is actually a basis for my perceptions in reality, thank you very much. Of course, no spiking went on in this case. Spiking would imply that the substance was hidden in something else to be consumed. These pills were not. It would have been quite possible for the junkie thief to identify what she was taking if she chose to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/55 "2004-08-25T12:45:25Z")
Spiking wasn’t the best term I could have used, to me it is pretty well the same. I realize it’s not the same to others. Does “bait and switch with a twist” work for you? No the junkie couldn’t have identified the pill with ease, they were all in one bottle, and no mention of a prescription label was made. No legal prescription label, no way to tell for sure what pill you have, unless you have all the various drug companies codes memorized. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/56 "2004-08-25T12:49:03Z")
**Indygrrl** , have you considered “confiding” in your friend that you’re sick of your meds being stolen from your purse and have no idea who is doing it, so you’ve impregnanted one with laxatives/switched it for a dye pill/fitted an alarm to your purse/substituted garlic and horseradish tablets/whatever you think will be most discouraging, and you’re going to leave it to “teach the thief a lesson”? You can act like the two of you are the only ones in on it, and pretend to keep her updated - “Thief hasn’t struck yet. Maybe tomorrow!”. “Looks like the thief might be on to me… still, I’ll try it for a bit longer”. The way I see it, this accomplishes the goal of getting your friend to stop taking your meds without you being forced into confrontation with her, or getting her into trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/57 "2004-08-25T12:52:19Z")
Oh! Or even confide in her that you’ve been trying to catch the thief out for weeks and so have been leaving multivitamins in your purse instead of real medication, but you’ve failed to bust the thief in action so far. This gives the suggestion that the pills are fake (and if she’s had any pain relief from them, gives her a chance to puzzle over the placebo effect and wonder if it’s all in her head), as well as hinting that she’s in danger of being caught because you are actively trying to bust the person stealing from your purse. Another idea: get a friend to watch your bag while you leave it unattended. Not just any friend - THE friend. Would be interesting to see how she would handle the situation of being guardian of the pills every time you need to leave your bag. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/58 "2004-08-25T12:56:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If it can be shown that through willful negligence you may have caused said injury, _your_ ass may be in deep kim chee. It is the job of the _court system_ to met out punishment-setting “traps” can backfire badly, both legally and physically. As far as the substitution of prescription drugs is concerned, either purposefully or “accidentally”, you cannot know how a person will react to a medication. There could be allergies or bad interactions with drugs already being taken. If you feel that someone is stealing from you, _report it to the proper authorities, and ask their advice on how to proceed from there._ This elegantly and succintly sums up the points I’ve been trying to make about what **Indygrrl** did all along. ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/59 "2004-08-25T13:21:46Z")
> [@Zabali\_Clawbane](#): > > Spiking wasn’t the best term I could have used, to me it is pretty well the same. I realize it’s not the same to others. Does “bait and switch with a twist” work for you? No the junkie couldn’t have identified the pill with ease, they were all in one bottle, and no mention of a prescription label was made. No legal prescription label, no way to tell for sure what pill you have, unless you have all the various drug companies codes memorized. Perhaps she could not have identified it easily before stealing, but she could have before _ingesting_ . There are many books for that purpose. Or she could have gone here: [http://drugs.com/pill\_identification.html](http://drugs.com/pill_identification.html). Just as buyers should beware, so should thieves. Junkie thief had no reason to expect that these weren’t her regular purloined pills, but she had no reason to believe that they _were_ . ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264/60 "2004-08-25T13:23:34Z")
BTW, I think **Indygrrl** should report the thief to the police and should use the alarm to help prove who the thief is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-czarcasm-fyi/261264.md?page=4)