# To Death Penalty Opponents **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369 "2010-12-08T02:25:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/41 "2010-12-08T12:18:44Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Are you opposed to the death penalty because you think there is a possiblity an innocent person might be killed or because you think even executing a murderer is wrong? Basically the former, but my position is rather more nuanced. Firstly, I have no objection to **defensive use** of lethal force in the heat of the moment. Secondly, I have no objection to semi-military actions in which people might die (e.g. hostage rescue, anti-piracy). But once someone is in custody, then that’s it. It’s impossible to apologise to someone who’s dead. There are other benefits, like protecting the lives of law officers, but those pale in comparison. Errare humanum est. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/42 "2010-12-08T12:53:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Not to mention the fact that “state sanctioned murder” is an oxymoron. Murder, by definition, is illegal. State sanctioned executions are not. It’s not an oxymoron; people use phrases like “the Nazis/Communists/etc murdered millions of people” regardless of whether or not the murderous governments in question bothered to make their killings officially legal. Murder is often used to refer to immoral killings as well as illegal ones. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/43 "2010-12-08T12:56:06Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Are you opposed to the death penalty because you think there is a possiblity an innocent person might be killed or because you think even executing a murderer is wrong? Both. It’s also just plainly uncivilized. [Just look at the red countries on this map](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retentionist). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/44 "2010-12-08T13:13:31Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Are you opposed to the death penalty because you think there is a possiblity an innocent person might be killed or because you think even executing a murderer is wrong? I oppose it on principle, so I’d say the second one. But I think the biases in the process are enough reason to oppose it. It’s not just that innocent people get sentenced to death and killed, it’s that some groups of people are much more likely to be targets for death penalty cases than others (including defendants who are poor and those who are charged with killing a white person), which reflects prejudices in society and in the justice system. That’s not in the interests of any kind of justice. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/45 "2010-12-08T13:36:40Z")
I’m mainly opposed on the 2nd ground, although the first is also valid. But primarily, I am opposed to all killing of human beings by other human beings, period. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/46 "2010-12-08T13:49:07Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Are you opposed to the death penalty because you think there is a possiblity an innocent person might be killed or because you think even executing a murderer is wrong? More the latter. I do not think execution is moral, effective or just. But, I also fear that given the injustice inherent to our legal system (race, class and power directly affecting the quality of defense you are most likely to be able to mount) the urgency to get of rid of the death penalty is extreme. The fact our society would mete out what I think is an unjust and cruel punishment to begin with on an innocent person makes my stomach churn. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/47 "2010-12-08T13:50:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > > > Are you opposed to the death penalty because you think there is a possiblity an innocent person might be killed or because you think even executing a murderer is wrong? > > Or? Philosophically, I’m opposed because killing is wrong. However, I have another, more practical, reason: it doesn’t work. If you look at the statistics, the death penalty is not a deterrent, because places with the death penalty do not have lower rates of capital crimes than places without it. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/48 "2010-12-08T14:07:37Z")
I was for the death penalty until I started hearing about the people getting freed from death row by DNA evidence and such, and realized the system simply doesn’t work well enough. I have no moral problem whatsoever with the state putting people to death, otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Electric\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9de0a6/32.png) [@Electric\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electric_Sky)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/49 "2010-12-08T14:21:26Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Are you opposed to the death penalty because you think there is a possiblity an innocent person might be killed or because you think even executing a murderer is wrong? I am strongly opposed on the first ground. On the second, I’ve gone back and forth over time, but since I could only support the death penalty if the system was foolproof and unbiased (and I doubt any such system will emerge in my lifetime) I figure it’s pretty academic. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/50 "2010-12-08T14:31:24Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Are you opposed to the death penalty because you think there is a possiblity an innocent person might be killed or because you think even executing a murderer is wrong? Not really. I’m against anybody killing anybody… and especially having killing as part of our Government and codified into Society’s laws and values. Bad place to have it if you want to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![BigDadWolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@BigDadWolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigDadWolf)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/51 "2010-12-08T14:35:38Z")
I believe the state executing anyone, even a murderer, is wrong. I would remain opposed to the death penalty on that basis alone. I am surprised there is not more opposition to the death penalty given that innocent people could be and likely already have been executed by the state. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/52 "2010-12-08T14:36:03Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You are aware that we don’t possess the ability to unkill someone, right? If someone is in for life you can let them out when you find out they’re innocent. Can you make them re-live the years they spent in prison? Or even give them extra years of life to compensate for the lost prison years? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/53 "2010-12-08T14:37:16Z")
Both. Killing someone is wrong, even if they are guilty. Accidentally killing an innocent person is of course even worse, but even if we were 100% certain of guilt I would still be opposed to the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/54 "2010-12-08T14:44:30Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Can you make them re-live the years they spent in prison? Or even give them extra years of life to compensate for the lost prison years? We can give them their _remaining_ years, which is a hell of a lot better than being dead. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/55 "2010-12-08T15:29:12Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Can you make them re-live the years they spent in prison? Or even give them extra years of life to compensate for the lost prison years? > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > We can give them their _remaining_ years, which is a hell of a lot better than being dead. They also compensated financially. That’s inadequate, but it’s also better than the nothing you get when you’re wrongly put to death. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/56 "2010-12-08T15:54:33Z")
I’m against it because of the potential for innocence. I believe that putting someone to death, even if guilty, is wrong, but I would say that if we could somehow avoid the first problem the act being wrong isn’t enough to mean we shouldn’t do it. Sometimes you have to do wrong things. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/57 "2010-12-08T16:02:25Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Can you make them re-live the years they spent in prison? Or even give them extra years of life to compensate for the lost prison years? Are you serious? I’m honestly floored that anyone can not understand this. Are you just so pro-death penalty that you’ll jump to its defense as a reflex without bothering to think? Here, I’ll explain what I mean: Innocent Prisoner A: Goes to death row for five years and is gassed to death. Innocent Prisoner B: Goes to prison for five years and is found innocent and released. Take your time and think about this… which of those cases is better for the prisoner? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/58 "2010-12-08T16:03:56Z")
For me to want to support something it has to have positive attributes. There is nothing about the death penalty that is a positive attribute. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/59 "2010-12-08T16:15:00Z")
I’d be firmly against the death penalty if imprisoning criminals was a better deterrent. The prison system of today is a joke of a deterrent (when it could do a far greater service to itself and our justice system as a whole) ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369/60 "2010-12-08T16:15:44Z")
> [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Both. It’s also just plainly uncivilized. [Just look at the red countries on this map](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retentionist). I’ve never seen a map like this and it’s sealed my opinion on the matter. Primarily because I see that the crimes “deserving” execution are so subjective depending on the culture. Here we may cheer a murderer being put to death whereas in another country they cheer when adulterers are stoned. We simply do not have the capacity to KNOW if killing anyone as a punishment is the right thing. It doesn’t help bring down violent crime. It obviously doesn’t keep serial murderers from murdering. It’s completely useless except to satisfy blood lust retaliation. But after living in death row so many years that blood lust weakens unless people are pumped up again by the media, reminding us why we should be happy this cop killer or that baby rapist should not continue taking up our precious breathing room. It makes us (as a nation) much like that serial killer, making a decision on who his next victim will be. I’m sure he has his reasons for his execution choices too. And yes it also bothers me that we (as a nation)have executed those who were posthumously exonerated. It certainly would suck to be forced to live in prison and suffer prison life for years and then be found not guilty, but there is room for second chances. I imagine those people are grateful to have that chance, even if prison has hardened them. The fact is, dead people don’t get second chances. Maybe their spirit will soar to the land of angels or whatever your religion teaches, but on this earth their time is done and the ones left behind are the ones who will live with that knowledge. Yup I got all that from that map. I’ve never really thought about it much before so forgive me if my ideas here are all messed up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-death-penalty-opponents/563369.md?page=4)