# To Democrats: An open invitation **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784 "2004-11-03T16:45:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal\_Puke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@Liberal\_Puke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal_Puke)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/21 "2004-11-03T18:43:16Z")
I started a thread over in general questions titled “Q for well traveled/international dopers: what country is better for my family?” ( [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284597](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=284597) ) I actually came down here to see if anyone pitted me yet, and was surprised to see this thread. Anyway, I’ve been looking for various statistics on worldwide rankings of healthcare, education, etc, but haven’t been able to find any yet. Any idea what Canada’s are? I echo the other people’s comments… I’m listenting, sell me on the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Standup\_Karmic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac91a4/32.png) [@Standup\_Karmic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Standup_Karmic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/22 "2004-11-03T18:51:27Z")
[Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada) has a pretty decent page on Canada, including links to some international rankings (_see sub-heading 11_). ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/23 "2004-11-03T18:57:30Z")
I started looking into Victoria a while ago (which I love and where the weather is, in fact, gorgeous). Sadly, while you, **kingpengvin** , are kind enough to invite me, your government has pesky little rules about immigration & being able to do a job that no Canadian could do and well, I’m good, but I’m not quite that special. Alas. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/24 "2004-11-03T19:03:03Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Of course they are. Next time, try asking for a _winning_ ticket. 😃🆒 :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/25 "2004-11-03T20:14:04Z")
Have any info on employment rates up there, **pengvin**? I was born in Wisconsin: I don’t fear the winters. I can keep in as good of touch with my family from Toronto as from Boston (they all live in the Midwest). I am so sick of being ashamed of my country… ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/26 "2004-11-03T20:30:48Z")
Well, as said by others it may not be that easy to pick up and go… however you never know. Latest Stat’s Can statistics [http://www.statcan.ca/english/Subjects/Labour/LFS/lfs-en.htm](http://www.statcan.ca/english/Subjects/Labour/LFS/lfs-en.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/27 "2004-11-03T20:48:56Z")
Sorry, but I’d rather not live in a place with hate speech laws, and I’m also not too keen on the whole monarchy thing, even though she is just a figurehead. Also not into high taxes, although I guess it’s better spending the money on healthcare than dumbass preemptive wars. More importantly, I love the US and think it’s the greatest country in the world. And I’m going down FIGHTING, dammit. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/28 "2004-11-03T20:56:42Z")
Part of me feels like I should stay here and fight the good fight. I worked hard with the Dems to win Pennsylvania for Kerry and we suceeded, FWIW. If people like me all left then what would happen? On the other hand, I’ve been thinking about the 5 weeks I spent in Vancouver a few years ago. I would love to live in an area like that. On the - uhm - third hand, I have a mother who’s in her 70’s, we lost my father a year ago, and she needs me nearby. What’re the employment opportunities like in BC for a software engineer? What is the cost of living like there? How long would it be before health coverage kicks in? Can a retired person, who has some modest resources, a pension, and medical coverage, move there if an employable relative also comes along? ---
**Author:** ![thwartme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@thwartme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thwartme)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/29 "2004-11-03T21:36:02Z")
Speaking for myself, I’d love to see you all (sorry, I guess that’d be y’all) come up here. But it seems it might be a little more difficult than my good friend **kingpengvin** makes it sound… [No Canada Safe Haven For Democrats (CNN)](http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/canada.us.reut/index.html) That aside, you could always just come up for a visit and check things out. Aside from a (troubled but mostly) great healthcare system and a dash more personal freedom, you could also try out Tim Hortons coffee, real maple syrup and the music of the Tragically Hip. Welcome, eh. thwartme ---
**Author:** ![JohnM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/848f3c/32.png) [@JohnM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnM)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/30 "2004-11-03T21:47:28Z")
If I may, I have an alternative suggestion that doesn’t require giving up the fight. Rather, if you’re a Dem in a safe state, consider a move to one of the borderline states. Hell, New York alone has 1 million excess Dems; move 200,000 of them to Ohio and the election would have gone the other way. We can emigrate our way to victory! Now, given my location, I obviously can’t move as the situation is still too precarious here, but commited Democratic residents of Illinois, California and New York need to call their realtors and head hunters now. Yes, it is pretty much tongue in cheek, but it’s not that far out, is it? In a way, it happened once before, with the demographic and political changes brought about by the great black migration to the Northern cities. More realistically, though, just give it some time, and the pendulum will swing back to left of center. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/31 "2004-11-03T21:47:54Z")
> [@thwartme](#): > > Speaking for myself, I’d love to see you all (sorry, I guess that’d be y’all) come up here. But it seems it might be a little more difficult than my good friend **kingpengvin** makes it sound… > > [No Canada Safe Haven For Democrats (CNN)](http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/03/canada.us.reut/index.html) > > That aside, you could always just come up for a visit and check things out. Aside from a (troubled but mostly) great healthcare system and a dash more personal freedom, you could also try out Tim Hortons coffee, real maple syrup and the music of the Tragically Hip. > > Welcome, eh. > > thwartme I figured it wouldn’t be easy and I doubt that I’d actually do it anyway. I have too many ties here and I think I have an obligation to remain politically active and try to change things before they’re too far gone (if they’re not already). But if any Canadian dopers want to get together maybe I’ll fly up sometime and make a vacation of it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/32 "2004-11-03T21:54:35Z")
> [@JohnM](#): > > Rather, if you’re a Dem in a safe state, consider a move to one of the borderline states. (blanching as I recall Kansas and Missouri in the 1850s) ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/33 "2004-11-03T22:00:28Z")
All you whiners talking about moving to Canada sound just like Alex Baldwin and Babs Streisand did in 2000, and I notice they are still here. But just we told them then, we’ll be glad to tell you now: don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/34 "2004-11-03T22:00:44Z")
All you whiners talking about moving to Canada sound just like Alex Baldwin and Babs Streisand did in 2000, and I notice they are still here. But just we told them then, we’ll be glad to tell you now: don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/35 "2004-11-03T22:21:25Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > All you whiners talking about moving to Canada sound just like Alex Baldwin and Babs Streisand did in 2000, and I notice they are still here. > > But just we told them then, we’ll be glad to tell you now: don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. All _what_ whiners talking about going to Canada? It appears to me like everyone said that they’re staying. Just because George doesn’t like reading doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try reading once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![E72521](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@E72521](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E72521)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/36 "2004-11-03T23:09:48Z")
> [@](#): > > But just we told them then, we’ll be glad to tell you now: don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Your Education Governor did a great job. On a serious note :rolleyes: it would be great to live in Canada, except I’m as chickenshit about cold weather as a rich Texan’s son pondering duty in the National Guard. I plan on retiring at 55, in ten years. I’ve always dreamed of settling down in Negril or Baja. Its starting to sound more and more doable. ---
**Author:** ![picker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/picker/32/13969_2.png) [@picker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/37 "2004-11-03T23:12:59Z")
**Althea** and myself are interested in speaking with you further on this. We’ve been considering a move to Canada prior to these events anyway, and as we’re already living in Wisconsin, the winters shouldn’t be that much worse. According to the entry status test, we both qualify independently or together (the current passing score is 67, we come in at 71.) My questions to you: 1. What areas would you suggest we look at? We love Vancouver, but it’s a little expensive. We’re outdoors people with a fondness for the bustle of the big city. We don’t speak French, although I speak Italian fluently and can’t imagine French would be that far of a stretch. 2. What’s the employment situation like? I’m in the music industry (currently in artist management and studio production) but I still do a fair amount of live sound engineering and audio editing/post-production work. **Althea** does signage work - design, manufacture and installation, mostly routed wood, vinyl and sandblasted glass work, although she’s comfortable in most artisan style shop settings. 3. My backup skill sets are: portrait & journalistic photography and cooking/bartending. **Althea** ’s are writing (copy, creative and technical) & editing/ Are there any particular regions or cities that would be particularly suited to us? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/38 "2004-11-04T00:40:37Z")
What I find funny about this idea is that if even 10% of the target audience took the OP up on his offer, most of Canada would be screaming for us to take them back in 6 months. Trust me… you don’t want a bunch of Americans, no matter what their political stripes, pushing their way into your country. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/39 "2004-11-04T00:55:55Z")
> [@picker](#): > > **Althea** and myself are interested in speaking with you further on this. > > We’ve been considering a move to Canada prior to these events anyway, and as we’re already living in Wisconsin, the winters shouldn’t be that much worse. > > According to the entry status test, we both qualify independently or together (the current passing score is 67, we come in at 71.) > > My questions to you: > > 1. What areas would you suggest we look at? We love Vancouver, but it’s a little expensive. We’re outdoors people with a fondness for the bustle of the big city. We don’t speak French, although I speak Italian fluently and can’t imagine French would be that far of a stretch. > > 2. What’s the employment situation like? I’m in the music industry (currently in artist management and studio production) but I still do a fair amount of live sound engineering and audio editing/post-production work. **Althea** does signage work - design, manufacture and installation, mostly routed wood, vinyl and sandblasted glass work, although she’s comfortable in most artisan style shop settings. > > 3. My backup skill sets are: portrait & journalistic photography and cooking/bartending. **Althea** ’s are writing (copy, creative and technical) & editing/ > > Are there any particular regions or cities that would be particularly suited to us? Try Calgary. Vancouver (or Toronto, but that’s basically an east-coast megalopolis) is where you want to be for your profession, but there’s some of it in Calgary and Calgary-Vancouver flights can be had for not too much (although flying up there is a lot more expensive than down here). Lovely, lovely country, particularly just west of the city in the Rockies. It’s a beautiful, clean, fun growing city as well. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784/40 "2004-11-04T01:11:01Z")
To paraphrase _Office Space_: Why should we leave? They’re the ones who suck. It’s my country, and I’m gonna stick around and fight. The parallels to the Civil Rights movement are very close: Then, the movement started with a court case-_Brown vs Topeka_, when the Supreme Court overturned “separate but equal.” For a time, there was a huge backlash in the South, with people screaming about activist judges on the Warren court, blaming those “uppity niggers who should just shut up and accept it, we weren’t ready!” Well, now we had _Lawrence_, where anti-sodomy laws (especially those that target homosexuals) are overturned by the Supreme Court. And we’re seeing a similiar reaction. Back in the fifties and sixties, you had the Cold War and the fight against Communism. Now, we also have the War on Terrorism. Eerie…just eerie. But perhaps…perhaps the end result will be the same. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-democrats-an-open-invitation/272784.md?page=3)