# To Dishonest "Christians" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 8, 2018, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019 "2018-04-08T09:52:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/121 "2018-04-18T22:29:52Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Given that the OP listed “God is a being who exists somewhere” as one of his “no sane person - barely even any _in_sane people - could honestly believe” statements, I’d say that there are very, very, very few religions that would escape the OP’s scorn. Saying that he’s specifically “anti-christian” is just persecution complex speaking; the dude has a _way_ bigger spread on his criticism musket than that. > > I would agree that the OP’s position isn’t factually sound (because you demonstrably don’t have to be insane to believe stupid things, and thus it doesn’t follow that religious people are _faking it_), but putting it the way you did just makes you sound like a douche. Personally, I think we have too many self proclaimed “christians” who won’t practice what they preach. They are more interested in fucking with everyone else. _"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” "You who preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”_ See, plenty of us know what’s in that book. I’ve had it with the “persecution” nonsense and the “War On Christmas” too. People in this country don’t know what real persecution is. To these people it means not being allowed to discriminate. Go ask some little old lady who has to carry a Nazi death camp tattoo for the rest of her life what it is like. That is persecution. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/122 "2018-04-18T22:40:33Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Personally, I think we have too many self proclaimed “christians” who won’t practice what they preach. They are more interested in fucking with everyone else. > > _"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” > "You who preach against stealing, do you steal? You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”_ > > See, plenty of us know what’s in that book. > > I’ve had it with the “persecution” nonsense and the “War On Christmas” too. People in this country don’t know what real persecution is. To these people it means not being allowed to discriminate. > Go ask some little old lady who has to carry a Nazi death camp tattoo for the rest of her life what it is like. That is persecution. Um, I personally don’t see much of a connection between the fact that virtually all vocal christians are raging hypocrites and the fact that most american christians have a persecution complex. The american christians who are raging hypocrites are usually raging hypocrites because their sects and leaders straight-up _tell_ them to be raging hypocrites. Because (as I said) it’s impossible to follow _all_ parts of the bible, people who want to be christians have no choice but to cherry pick like crazy and roll their own personal variant of the religion - or follow somebody else who does. And people who sell the religion as “you can be a pushy asshole who gets to tell others what to do and still go to heaven” will always find followers, much more than the “shut up and turn the other cheek” types. Whereas the persecution complex comes from a sense of complacency in their position at the top, such that a single pea under their mattress pile feels like a rock to them. That and the fact they’ve been falsely told that their opinions are divinely enforced, and thus disagreement shouldn’t even be _possible_. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/123 "2018-04-18T23:19:59Z")
This is the absolute truth: As I was sitting at my desk at work this afternoon, a newbie walked up to me and asked, smiling, “Do you have a personal relationship with your lord and savior Jesus Christ?” How the hell am I supposed to respond to that? I almost replied, “Nooo…but Jesus down at the transfer dock gave me a friendly reach-around last week.” Say what you will about supposedly “militant” atheists, walking up to total strangers and challenging their religious beliefs just isn’t something that happens. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/124 "2018-04-18T23:24:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is the absolute truth: As I was sitting at my desk at work this afternoon, a newbie walked up to me and asked, smiling, “Do you have a personal relationship with your lord and savior Jesus Christ?” > How the hell am I supposed to respond to that? I almost replied, “Nooo…but Jesus down at the transfer dock gave me a friendly reach-around last week.” > Say what you will about supposedly “militant” atheists, walking up to total strangers and challenging their religious beliefs just isn’t something that happens. God keeps trying, and you keep ignoring him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/125 "2018-04-18T23:29:57Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > God keeps trying, and you keep ignoring him. A _real_ “god” would know what approach to take. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/126 "2018-04-18T23:41:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is the absolute truth: As I was sitting at my desk at work this afternoon, a newbie walked up to me and asked, smiling, “Do you have a personal relationship with your lord and savior Jesus Christ?” > How the hell am I supposed to respond to that? I almost replied, “Nooo…but Jesus down at the transfer dock gave me a friendly reach-around last week.” > Say what you will about supposedly “militant” atheists, walking up to total strangers and challenging their religious beliefs just isn’t something that happens. Man, I’m trying to think of a clever response to that, but in all honesty I’d just be creeped out as fuck. Were I more suave and stylish, though, the insults just write themselves. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/127 "2018-04-19T01:28:38Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Man, I’m trying to think of a clever response to that, but in all honesty I’d just be creeped out as fuck. My go-to reply is, _“no, I’m a monotheist.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/128 "2018-04-19T13:36:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is the absolute truth: As I was sitting at my desk at work this afternoon, a newbie walked up to me and asked, smiling, “Do you have a personal relationship with your lord and savior Jesus Christ?” > How the hell am I supposed to respond to that? I almost replied, “Nooo…but Jesus down at the transfer dock gave me a friendly reach-around last week.” > Say what you will about supposedly “militant” atheists, walking up to total strangers and challenging their religious beliefs just isn’t something that happens. This is also an absolute truth: my father holds court once a week at a pizza joint with other members of the parish to discuss Jesus’ teachings, church doctrine, and other topics. Sometimes complete strangers join in the conversation after overhearing what they are talking about. Most times, according to my father, these strangers bring challenging questions that are welcomed as it invites spirited debate. On more than one occasion, self-proclaimed atheists have sat down with them and flat-out called their beliefs as so-much bullshit and they would explain why. So your last claim, at least anecdotally, is false. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/129 "2018-04-19T14:36:28Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > This is also an absolute truth: my father holds court once a week at a pizza joint with other members of the parish to discuss Jesus’ teachings, church doctrine, and other topics. Sometimes complete strangers join in the conversation after overhearing what they are talking about. Most times, according to my father, these strangers bring challenging questions that are welcomed as it invites spirited debate. On more than one occasion, self-proclaimed atheists have sat down with them and flat-out called their beliefs as so-much bullshit and they would explain why. > > So your last claim, at least anecdotally, is false. Nice try. I wasn’t discussing religion with anyone at the time-_He_ brought up the subject out of the blue in the workplace. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/130 "2018-04-19T14:48:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Nice try. I wasn’t discussing religion with anyone at the time-_He_ brought up the subject out of the blue in the workplace. Proof that Jesus loves you, Czarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/131 "2018-04-19T14:51:01Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Proof that Jesus loves you, Czarcasm. Jesus better back off, or he’s getting a restraining order. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/132 "2018-04-19T15:04:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is the absolute truth: As I was sitting at my desk at work this afternoon, a newbie walked up to me and asked, smiling, “Do you have a personal relationship with your lord and savior Jesus Christ?” > How the hell am I supposed to respond to that? I almost replied, “Nooo…but Jesus down at the transfer dock gave me a friendly reach-around last week.” > Say what you will about supposedly “militant” atheists, walking up to total strangers and challenging their religious beliefs just isn’t something that happens. To be fair, if you were to talk about anything based on reality, then he would take that as challenging his religious beliefs. And the proper answer to that question is, “No, a professional one.” ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/133 "2018-04-19T16:03:40Z")
Like I say, [Inanna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inanna) (aka Ishtar) The ancient Sumerian goddess of love, beauty, sex, desire, fertility, war, combat, justice, and political power. Worshipped from circa 4,000 bc to the late 18th century. Much longer than that upstart JHVH. I think she’d make a much better American God. Definitely without all the puritan hypocrisy and ‘forgiveness’ crap. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/134 "2018-04-19T16:22:17Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Like I say, [Inanna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inanna) (aka Ishtar) > > The ancient Sumerian goddess of love, beauty, sex, desire, fertility, war, combat, justice, and political power. Worshipped from circa 4,000 bc to the late 18th century. Much longer than that upstart JHVH. > > I think she’d make a much better American God. > > Definitely without all the puritan hypocrisy and ‘forgiveness’ crap. Unimpressive actually. The Hawaiian goddess Kapo could detach and throw her vagina. In fact, she saved her sister by tossing her vagina at a few thugs chasing her. Works every time. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/135 "2018-04-19T16:24:38Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Unimpressive actually. > The Hawaiian goddess Kapo could detach and throw her vagina. In fact, she saved her sister by tossing her vagina at a few thugs chasing her. Works every time. At last, a match for this guy. Spoilered for NSFW [Detachable Penis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byDiILrNbM4) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/136 "2018-04-20T00:58:30Z")
Even if you give Christians a pass for not following the entirety of Scripture, due to contradictions, you can still hold them to following the parts that agree, and the parts they themselves use to say that others are being bad. I do note that that loving your brother (or sister) only specifically requires that you love a fellow Christian. The one you need to pull up for love in that regard is the one about loving your enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/137 "2018-04-20T08:58:46Z")
There’s an [interesting article in the recent Economist](https://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21740816-some-evangelicals-want-wean-their-brethren-unconditional-support-donald?cid1=cust/ddnew/email/n/n/20180419n/owned/n/n/ddnew/n/n/n/nuk/Daily_Dispatch/email&etear=dailydispatch&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily_Dispatch&utm_term=20180419)about Evangelicals who are, shall we say, disappointed at the ease with which the majority of their brethren have embraced Trump and all that he stands for. (Apologies if this is paywalled for some.) > [@](#): > > One of the reasons for the problem is that evangelicals, unlike Catholics, do not have a strong model for social engagement. “People’s views on, say, immigration are not shaped by their theology, but by their class, their politics and their tribe,” says Michael Gerson, a former speechwriter for George W. Bush, who supports the Wheaton meeting. The danger is that this has meant that they take on the characteristics of the group that has said it will protect them. Feeling besieged in a secularising society, they have been receptive to a message of resentful populism. So, not unlike some medieval church leaders, “they are providing religious cover for moral squalor”, says Mr Gerson. There’s also an interesting point that although American evangelicals skew white, globally they’re about 80% non-white. And young evangelicals, like young people more broadly, are increasingly interested in social justice which means that they will either leave or change the focus of the cohort. So change is happening, albeit more slowly than many would like. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019/138 "2018-04-20T21:38:04Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Um, I personally don’t see much of a connection between the fact that virtually all vocal christians are raging hypocrites and the fact that most american christians have a persecution complex. > > The american christians who are raging hypocrites are usually raging hypocrites because their sects and leaders straight-up _tell_ them to be raging hypocrites. Because (as I said) it’s impossible to follow _all_ parts of the bible, people who want to be christians have no choice but to cherry pick like crazy and roll their own personal variant of the religion - or follow somebody else who does. And people who sell the religion as “you can be a pushy asshole who gets to tell others what to do and still go to heaven” will always find followers, much more than the “shut up and turn the other cheek” types. > > Whereas the persecution complex comes from a sense of complacency in their position at the top, such that a single pea under their mattress pile feels like a rock to them. That and the fact they’ve been falsely told that their opinions are divinely enforced, and thus disagreement shouldn’t even be _possible_. Fuck 'em anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-dishonest-christians/812019.md?page=6)