# To H\*LL with Pretentious restaurants! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 2, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718 "2008-04-02T20:40:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/81 "2008-04-04T19:53:11Z")
In that case, there may not have been Kobe or Wagyu cuts on the menu. šŸ™‚ Thanks for the correction, **LTL**! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/82 "2008-04-04T20:10:34Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Itā€™s a specific type of thick sauce made of pureed fruit or vegetables. It would not describe most sauces or reductions you would find on a sauced plate. [/QUOTE] Still, unless itā€™s thick enough to eat with a fork, Iā€™m going to need some way of getting at it without horrifying everyone else in the dining room. Maybe if I ask for it to be served on the side, in a ramekinā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/83 "2008-04-04T20:30:38Z")
[QUOTE=Long Time Lurker] Thatā€™s not consistent with my experience: Some examples: Uncle Jackā€™s ($100): [New York Menus - New York, NY Restaurants Guide - MenuPages](http://menupages.com/restaurantdetails.asp?areaid=0&restaurantid=5154&neighborhoodid=0&cuisineid=61) Old Homestead ($195): [New York Menus - New York, NY Restaurants Guide - MenuPages](http://menupages.com/restaurantdetails.asp?areaid=0&restaurantid=4722&neighborhoodid=0&cuisineid=0) Craft ($102/105): [New York Menus - New York, NY Restaurants Guide - MenuPages](http://menupages.com/restaurantdetails.asp?areaid=0&restaurantid=32652&neighborhoodid=0&cuisineid=61) BLT ($26 per ounce): [New York Menus - New York, NY Restaurants Guide - MenuPages](http://menupages.com/restaurantdetails.asp?areaid=0&restaurantid=6124&neighborhoodid=0&cuisineid=0) [/QUOTE] I donā€™t have time to go through all the sites, but I checked out Uncle Jackā€™s, the first link. The $100 steak is indeed Kobe Beef. > [@](#): > > Kobe Beef Uncle Jackā€™s is the only Steakhouse that specializes in Kobe Beef, which is known throughout the world for its incredible flavor. This unique delicacy is hand massaged with Sake to ensure tenderness. Kobe Beef is also aged 21 days, and served at the absolute peak of flavor and tenderness, cooked to perfection, and served in its own Juices They also have an $85 steak. > [@](#): > > Porterhouse This is Uncle Jackā€™s Signature Dish. A 48 Ounce USDA Prime Steak that features both the Filet and the New York Strip Cut. Available for 2 or more people (24 ounces per person) I donā€™t know about you, but my days of eating 24 oz of steak in one sitting (even with a bone) are long, long gone. That feeds three, at least. Heck, my wife and I could split the $40 24 oz. NY Strip along with a pair of salads and be content. ETA: Old Homesteadā€™s $195 steak is 10 oz. of Kobe Beef. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/2bfe46/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_Lurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_Lurker)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/84 "2008-04-04T20:37:00Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] In that case, there may not have been Kobe or Wagyu cuts on the menu. šŸ™‚ Thanks for the correction, **LTL**! [/QUOTE] Any time. I donā€™t mind blowing disposable income on interesting food, but I really donā€™t get the Kobe beef burgers. E.g from Uncle Jackā€™s above: Ground Kobe Beef Burger: 49.00. Why would you pay that much money for a cut of meat thatā€™s going to be ground up and then have the taste masked by a bun, tomato, lettuce, and possibly ketchup? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/85 "2008-04-04T20:51:18Z")
I completely agree. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/86 "2008-04-04T21:10:26Z")
I had the kobe burger for lunch a while back at Blue Point in DC. Not my fault - its in the building and I wasnā€™t paying. $18 and I make a much better burger, as indeed does 5 Guys. It struck me as well as a waste, and though the gorganzola and onions were pleasant, they kind of overpowered anything impressive about the meat. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/87 "2008-04-04T23:41:27Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Still, unless itā€™s thick enough to eat with a fork, Iā€™m going to need some way of getting at it without horrifying everyone else in the dining room. Maybe if I ask for it to be served on the side, in a ramekinā€¦ [/QUOTE] [johncleese] ā€œOr perhaps Mā€™sieur would prefer ze bucket?ā€ [/johncleese] ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/88 "2008-04-05T00:20:01Z")
[QUOTE=GargoyleWB] As someone who recently paid $35 for a _single_ ravioli the size of a credit card, set on a 20" plate drizzled with an unknown sauce in a spirograph pattern, I heartily concur with the OP. [/QUOTE] _Waiter spins the plate_ ā€œYouā€™re getting sleepyā€¦sleepyā€¦youā€™re pulling out your VISA. You want to tip heavily. In fact, the more you tip, the more satisfied you feelā€¦ā€ [QUOTE=pulykamell] I want to leave a restaurant feeling sated, not like Iā€™m about to give birth. [/QUOTE] To each his own. Me? I donā€™t want to leave a restaurant feeling like theyā€™ve tried to impregnate me via the bill. [QUOTE=SmartAleq] [johncleese] ā€œOr perhaps Mā€™sieur would prefer ze bucket?ā€ [/johncleese] [/QUOTE] [Hyacinth Bucket]ā€ā€¦its pronounced bouquet.ā€ [/Hyacinth Bucket] ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/89 "2008-04-05T05:27:42Z")
[QUOTE=Struan] ā€œnewā€, ā€œbizarreā€ Welcome to decades ago, Ralph! [/QUOTE] Everything passe is nouveau again. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/90 "2008-04-05T05:50:20Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Yeah, I think it is largely a myth that you can walk out of a ā€œfancy restaurantā€ with ā€œtiny portionsā€ and leave hungry. (Not that it never happens, just that itā€™s largely a myth.) [/QUOTE] I have. Wasnā€™t a super-fancy restaurant lie these, but itā€™s happened. When I eat at a restaurant, I expect Iā€™ll have enough food for extra if I need it, because they donā€™t know me and donā€™t know how much I want to eat. If Iā€™m not super-hungry, I may have some left over; well and good. But if the portions come up short, I wonā€™t go back. Iā€™m not asking for a gargantuan amount, but I donā€™t go eat at places just so I can have marginally interesting food. Itā€™s not like I couldnā€™t cook it if I wanted to. I go to have a large, filling, tasty meal without fuss. If they canā€™t manage that, then no matter how great the food is, they failed. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/91 "2008-04-05T06:06:03Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit] but I donā€™t go eat at places just so I can have marginally interesting food. Itā€™s not like I couldnā€™t cook it if I wanted to. [/QUOTE] Thatā€™s the thingā€“I generally go out to eat stuff I canā€™t cook at home. Anything I can make at home, I do, because I love to cook. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/92 "2008-04-05T06:42:52Z")
I once had a meal similar to the one described in the OP. It made me want to **ralph.** ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/93 "2008-04-05T06:55:07Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] Soā€¦ **ralph**? [/QUOTE] Yeah, iā€™m wondering if heā€™s ever going to be bothered coming back to fill out the story. He does, though, have something of a track record of starting stupid or confusing Pit threads, and then never really following up, especially when people donā€™t immediately agree with him or point out the inconsistencies or the stupidity of his rant. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/94 "2008-04-05T07:13:57Z")
I am a ridiculous food snob. I love places with super fresh food and I have never minded the smaller portions. I care about what I eat, so I pay more for it and I donā€™t mind. But since Iā€™ve been pregnant, I really canā€™t go to some of my favorite restaurants anymore. Itā€™s just not enough food! I suspect that some people just wonā€™t feel satisfied with the portion sizes of more ā€œfoodieā€ type restaurants. Iā€™m not usually one of them but having recently left a restaurant after relatively expensive meal hungry and PISSED OFF about it certainly allows me to understand why people are turned off by the experience. Iā€™ll be relieved when the volume of food I eat is no longer a consideration! Until then Iā€™m kind of getting a kick out of experiencing gluttony. But I ate a lot better when I was less hungry. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/95 "2008-04-05T11:00:11Z")
Friends and I went out to a hoity toity restaurant to celebrate my friendsā€™ remission from cancer. (Woohoo!) We all ordered soup, with most ordering the tomato basil. The waiter came by and into my bowl he placed exactly 3 pine nuts topped with fresh basil. He performed this task with great relish. After he left, I remember peering down into my bowl, wondering what the hell I was supposed to do. The rest of my friends were doing the same, giving each other a sidelong glance trying to figure out what the hell was the etiquette of eating pine nuts. Do you use a spoon? A fork? Thankfully the waiter returned with tureens of soup, which he ladled on top of the nuts, putting us all out of our collective embarrassment about what to do with the 3 pine nuts topped with a sprinkling of fresh basil. I must say it was deee-licious. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/96 "2008-04-05T11:41:13Z")
Pull an Abe Froman on them. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/97 "2008-04-05T11:59:28Z")
Can I add an extra gripe about ā€˜corkageā€™ charges? A couple of weeks ago it was my kidā€™s birthday so we chortled off to a cheapo Vietnamese cafe in the inner-urban Little Saigon of Melbourne. (Victoria Street for those who know Melbourne). There were nine of us at the table and we ordered extremely generously, but we also brought with us three bottles of plonk from the local pub instead of purchasing it from the restaurant itselfā€¦and even though we opened and poured the glasses ourselves, the joint charged us $18 for the privilege. Corkage charges are a righteous rip-off, and are just another defacto ā€˜tipā€™ that the Australian diners are having to wear whether they like it or not. Sucks, ---
**Author:** ![XaMcQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/f9ae1b/32.png) [@XaMcQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XaMcQ)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/98 "2008-04-05T15:08:33Z")
Iā€™ve only had one restaurant experience as bad as that, though thankfully nowhere near as expensive. It was a little Tex-Mex steakhouse where hubby and I ordered two appetizers and split the steak, and had two beers each, bringing the bill up to about $70, which was a lot for us at the time. I canā€™t complain about the beer, except for it being so overpriced, but the food was cold, there was barely any of it, and the steak was this miserly little thing buried under a mountain of onions and cilantro. We actually left and drove to the nearby burger place, because we were hungry. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/99 "2008-04-05T15:43:29Z")
[QUOTE=kambuckta] Can I add an extra gripe about ā€˜corkageā€™ charges? A couple of weeks ago it was my kidā€™s birthday so we chortled off to a cheapo Vietnamese cafe in the inner-urban Little Saigon of Melbourne. (Victoria Street for those who know Melbourne). There were nine of us at the table and we ordered extremely generously, but we also brought with us three bottles of plonk from the local pub instead of purchasing it from the restaurant itselfā€¦and even though we opened and poured the glasses ourselves, the joint charged us $18 for the privilege. Corkage charges are a righteous rip-off, and are just another defacto ā€˜tipā€™ that the Australian diners are having to wear whether they like it or not. Sucks, [/QUOTE] You say that you bought the wine at the pub, instead of at the restaurant. Can i take this to mean that the restaurant actually has a wine list? Also, do you know whether the $18 charge was based on a $2-per-person charge, or a $6-per-bottle charge? In my experience, corkage in Australia tends to be on a per-person basis, whereas in America itā€™s on a per-bottle basis. If the restaurant itself has a wine list, then i really do understand charging corkage, and itā€™s something thatā€™s done over here in the US as well. After all, while we might not like paying restaurant prices for wine, the fact is that wine makes up a reasonable percentage of many restaurantsā€™ profit margin. If you bring in wine instead of buying from their list, youā€™re effectively depriving them of income, so there needs to be a way for them to get it back. You say that you opened and poured the wine yourself. For me, this the most annoying part of the restaurantā€™s behavior, because part of what youā€™re paying for with corkage is the service associated with the wine. In the US, especially at decent restaurants, you pay corkage and the waiter or the sommelier will serve your wine to you as if it came from the restaurantā€™s wine list. Also, not only do you pay corkage in American restaurants, but because the corkage goes to the restaurant and not to the server, youā€™re also meant to tip the server based on the corkage itself. So, if youā€™re tipping 20%, and the corkage fee is $20, you need to add another $4 to the serverā€™s tip. Corkage is the subject of considerable debate and some acrimony, especially in areas where lots of customers like to take their own wine to restaurants. [This article](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/04/06/WIGRPHVGP975.DTL) is a fascinating look at the policy of BYOB in northern California, especially the Bay Area and wine country. Many wine country restaurants, in particular, have no choice but to charge corkage, because so many customers want to bring their own wine. Typical corkage charges in good restaurants seem to be about $15-30 a bottle, although [this list](http://takealotofdrugs.com/2006/05/screw-you-how-much-it-costs-to-byob.html) of corkage fees at Orange County (Southern California) restaurants suggest that there are quite a lot of restaurants that charge less, and some that donā€™t charge at all. Some restaurants have taken to adopting a sliding scale whereby the corkage goes up for each bottle. From the article in the first link: > [@](#): > > Other San Francisco restaurants, including Fifth Floor, are trying more creative approaches to the corkage conundrum. After experiencing problems with a set $30 corkage fee, Emily Wines, sommelier at Fifth Floor, installed a graduated corkage policy that she says makes everyone happy. > > The first bottle a patron brings in costs $20 to open; the second is an additional $40, the third an additional $60, and so on. Thus, someone bringing in six bottles will be charged $420. > > ā€œIt means that when people have multiple bottles, it can be a hefty corkage, but on the first bottle, it offers a break to someone if they just have one special wine,ā€ she says. (Can i just say that i think itā€™s great that the sommelierā€™s name is Emily Wines.) Many restaurants also have a ā€œone-for-oneā€ policy, where they will waive corkage on one bottle for every bottle you buy from the wine list. In some US states (i donā€™t have a list handy) bringing your own wine to a restaurant is actually against the law. One such state is Colorado, and some restauranteurs argue that banning BYOB actually benefits everyone. Because theyā€™re not allowed to bring wine, patrons have no choice but to order from the restaurantā€™s wine list. And because they know that more people will order from their win list, restaurants can afford to reduce their mark-up. Thatā€™s the argument made by some restauranteurs, anyway; iā€™m not sure whether it works quite that well in practice, and would be interested in seeing a price comparison between the wine lists of Colorado restaurants and wine lists in BYOB states. At least one Colorado owner, however, seems to follow a practice of reasonable mark-ups: > [@](#): > > Bobby Stuckey, a master sommelier and former wine director at French Laundry in Yountville, left to open a restaurant in Boulder, Colo., where state law prohibits patrons from bringing in wine. He says the law works in everyoneā€™s favor, in terms of both price and selection. > > ā€œI mark my wines up only $20 above retail, no matter if itā€™s $15 or $500 to begin with, and I can afford to do it because people support my wine list,ā€ he says. > > Stuckey argues that the profit restaurants make on wine-list purchases allows them not only to keep prices lower, but also to amass interesting collections. > > ā€œWalk into a restaurant in any wine-growing region, like Burgundy or Alsace, where they donā€™t allow corkage,ā€ he says, ā€œand youā€™re going to find some great, affordable wines with a lot of age on them.ā€ > > Stuckey says lists with multiple vintages of a particular wine are harder to find in Northern California, because consumers can bring in their own aged wines. That makes it difficult for restaurants to cellar the good stuff ā€“ theyā€™re not rewarded for doing so. > > He also says the solution isnā€™t to raise corkage fees, because those who can afford to bring in great wines arenā€™t concerned about the cost of opening them. > > ā€œThe average consumer thinks itā€™s in their best interest to have corkage, but itā€™s not true,ā€ he says. ā€œIt really only helps the people with a lot of money, because theyā€™re the ones who want to bring in something from their cellar.ā€ > > Stuckey says he believes most diners donā€™t have the opportunity to drink listed wines that are both affordable and mature because restaurants canā€™t afford to buy and store them for years. If they do, they have to charge an astronomical amount. > > So is the solution to ban BYOB altogether? It seems to work in Colorado, according to Stuckey. Again, as i suggested above, iā€™d be interested from hearing from Colorado diners about whether restaurant wine price and selection in the state really is as good as Stuckey suggests. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718/100 "2008-04-05T15:55:05Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit] I have. [/QUOTE] Did you request a manager, inform them that because their service sucked, the waiter was a jackass, and the food portions required you to go to another restaurant to get something to actually ease my hunger, you would be happy to pay and never return, after informing everyone you meet long and loud about exactly why the restaurant was not worth going to? And after you watched the managerā€™s face go bloodlessly white, realizing you were not worth discussing the issue with as it would waste about a thousand dollars worth of his time, did he comp me the meal so you would go away? Did you then leave a penny as a tip, and tell the waiter this was generous? -FrL- [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-h-ll-with-pretentious-restaurants/443718.md?page=6)