# To hell with Fish! For Life **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 25, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027 "2005-04-25T14:24:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/41 "2005-04-26T05:08:17Z")
…And once again I want to apologize to everyone who has ever lived for my having once taught TQM. I was young and naive, and I assure you that it won’t happn again. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/42 "2005-04-26T08:34:06Z")
I do think it’s possible to _decide_ to make the best (and therefore try to find aspects you can enjoy) of something you cannot avoid, but like most of the others here, I despise motivational bullshit seminars; I went on one once (on… one… once… ooh \ eh? wassat?), the theme of which was ‘Be Here NOW!’ - the department heads had been to some seminar where that was the theme and were highly inspired by it. As far as I understand it, the ethic of ‘Be Here NOW!’ roughly translates to upper management striding and puffing about while the underlings are expected to instantaneously drop whatever it is they’re ‘wasting their time on’ (AKA ‘working’) and immediately service the trivial and self-centred whims of their bosses. Pretty sure it was something like that. There was the usual sprinkling of stupid illustrative games (like the one where you fall back and are (supposedly) caught by your colleague). ---
**Author:** ![Maxxxie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@Maxxxie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maxxxie)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/43 "2005-04-26T09:56:45Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > I’d lead my group in a performance of “If You Work In a Room With Other People Shit The **FUCK** Up” and see where that takes morale. That would have to be the best typo ever. 😃 Max. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/44 "2005-04-26T11:57:40Z")
There are actually two reasons why people work, as I learnt at a Management Seminar in the Head Office of the large chain of English schools in Japan where I had the misfortune to be a manager and trainer many moons ago. These are Extrinsic Motivation and Intrinsic Motivation. Sadly, I can’t remember clearly which is which, as I went into a catatonic stupor at that point in order to cling to my few remaining shreds of sanity: intrinsic motivation, I think, is money, and extrinsic motivation is probably threats of violence. After this edifying presentation, which took 3 hours and 45 minutes, I emerged from my coma in time to hear it summarily announced in the final 15 minutes of the meeting that overtime pay rates were to be cut, class numbers increased and preparation time for lessons halved, and afterwards we poor school managers all gloomily slunk off to drink ourselves shitfaced and ponder how we were going to break it to teachers that they were going to have to work more for less pay without getting ourselves lynched. The dumb bastards at the top could never figure out why they couldn’t retain experienced teachers, let alone school managers, who were dropping like tailgunners over Berlin, and so they were forever having to make up the numbers with FOB incomps straight out of college: which of course led to an inevitable decline in teaching standards, complaints from students, and consequently more work for the managers and trainers, who promptly quit, lowering standards even further. Sadly, no-one ever asked me how to retain experienced management, competent, satisfied staff and keep students as happily paying customers: pay a decent wage and allow enough time to do the job properly. This, however, is probably too short and sensible to put into a book, which is why I am not a high-flying Management Consultant and am forced to languish in relative penury. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/45 "2005-04-26T12:34:47Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > “Such a day, Rum all out - Our Company somewhat sober - A damn’d confusion amongst us! - Rogues a-plotting - great Talk of Separation. So I look’d sharp for a Prize - such a Day took one, with a great deal of Liquor on board, so kept the Company hot, damn’d hot, then all Things went well again.” > {from the journal of Edward “Blackbeard” Teach, as quoted by Daniel Defoe} Maybe we should hire Capt. Edward Teach of the world famous consultant company QAR as our new management consultant. Keep the staff liquored up, and they keep 20% of the plunder. I like it. ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/46 "2005-04-26T14:38:48Z")
> [@BoBettie](#): > > So anyway, the first time I went to one of these meetings, they got done berating and started picking people to come in front of everyone and lead the cheer. Of course everyone is looking at the floor, looking around- anywhere but making eye contact with the store manager- except Dad. He’s right up front, hand in the air like Horshack “Oh! Oh! Me! Me! Me! Can I be the squiggly today? Can I today???” I very nearly pissed myself the first time I saw it. Naturally, they didn’t pick him (they never, ever picked him, since they assumed it would make him happy and they didn’t want that), but when it came time for the cheer, I clearly heard him yell “Gimme a W! Gimma an A! Gimmie an L! Gimmie a squiggly! Gimmie an M! Gimmie an A! Gimmie an R! Gimme a T! **WHAT’S THAT SMELL??** WAL-MART! LOUDER! WAL-MART!” Indeed, what’s that smell? The smell of fucking victory over those oppresive petty tyrants. He did little shit like that all 10 years to drive them nuts, and it did drive them nuts. Good for him. I work at a Walmart right now and I figured out the perfect way to avoid the dreaded squiggly - the first time they hit me with that, I looked confused, and then skipped right to the “What’s that spell” part - and everyone of my coworkers simultaineously yelled “Wall!”. 😃 Since then, no squiggly for me! Overall, its not that bad of a job - I work overnights, and we have too much actual work to do than to waste time on the company cheer BS. I almost feel sorry for the day shift people who have to put up with this crap, until I remember most of them are incredibly lazy, and don’t get anything done at all. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/47 "2005-04-26T16:41:50Z")
I just want to make a counterpoint to the horror stories. I work a huge company. Fortune 500-level. My boss’s idea of staff meetings is to get together for a fully catered gathering once per quarter with a hosted bar. His idea of motivation is to make sure we get a bonus every month with fully identified and reasonable criteria. And he walks around with fifties and hundreds in his pocket (out of his own money) to hand out whenever he sees fit. His motto is the the customer is usually, but not _always_, right. I love my job. I may be the only person in this thread to say that without sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![HelenTroy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helentroy/32/86_2.png) [@HelenTroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenTroy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/48 "2005-04-26T17:06:29Z")
I once worked for a company that had an annual retreat where we did mind-numbingly awful participatory crap like this. The worst experience was at the end of a “Cultural Sensitivity” training day (incidentally where I hated every culture equally at the end) we were asked to join hands. And sing. “Lean on Me”. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/49 "2005-04-26T17:15:18Z")
Ah, the FISH! video. I had to watch it last year. It looked energetic and fun. I work in stepdown ICU-not so much fun and no room for throwing fish at people (not that I am not tempted, mind you). I saw no correlation to its “concepts” and my job at all. Where was the drunk customer? the raving psychotic? the coming down off meth person? How about the oxygen dependent? Total disconnect for me. A few years back, we were pulled off the floor and from the pts in order to be taught how to properly answer the phone. Now, I figure most of us know to say: XXX unit, may I help you? or at the least, “hello?”, but that is NOT the way. They gave us a spiel that no lie, took approximately 30 seconds to say. No way. There was also the time when were supposed to rat on our coworkers by confronting them with the strange phrase:“that’s not a 95” when they had not met an arbitrary standard set by a consultant. (95 referred to the percentile that the hospital wanted to achieve in pt satisfaction). Then there was the time when I was supposed to say to each pt, “do you need anything else? I have the time.” It became screechingly obvious to all (and some pts commented on it) that I did NOT have the time–or the help. I wonder what is next? Transactional analysis? that is '70’s enough to be retro and cool…I await the next administrative brainstorm with baited breath. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/50 "2005-04-26T17:16:33Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > I just want to make a counterpoint to the horror stories. I work a huge company. Fortune 500-level. My boss’s idea of staff meetings is to get together for a fully catered gathering once per quarter with a hosted bar. His idea of motivation is to make sure we get a bonus every month with fully identified and reasonable criteria. And he walks around with fifties and hundreds in his pocket (out of his own money) to hand out whenever he sees fit. His motto is the the customer is usually, but not _always_, right. > > I love my job. I may be the only person in this thread to say that without sarcasm. Check your inbox for resume. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/51 "2005-04-26T18:00:37Z")
> [@BoBettie](#): > > My dad worked his last 10 years or so at Wal-Mart in the sporting goods and electronics departments, and I worked with him for a brief (very brief) period of time. He’s a real pisser, for one- he drove management batshit by acting completely enthusiastic no matter what kind of shit they would heap on his plate. My favorite was watching him at the morning “meetings”. That’s where they would berate the bad departments, and whoever they were pissed at the most would have to be a “letter” in the Wal-Mart cheer. There is also a ~ in Wal~Mart, called the “squiggley”, usually reserved for the lowest on the totem pole because when it was YOUR turn to yell, you had to do a little hip wiggle and say “Gimmie a squiggly!”. No fucking lie. Maybe if the person drew a pistol and demanded a “W” at gunpoint, they’d get more enthusiastic responses. “I SAID GIMME A ‘W’ **NOW**!” Or perhaps one could claim to be dyslexic and ask for a “Q” or even better a “3.” A temporary case of Tourettes Syndrome might enliven the cheer. “GIMME A ‘SHEEP-FUCKIN’,COCK-SUCKIN’, SUNOVABITCH!’” ---
**Author:** ![Catfood\_Purrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Catfood\_Purrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catfood_Purrito)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/52 "2005-04-26T18:03:02Z")
Where I work, one time there was some problem, and for some reason I cannot remember what the hell it was, but my boss came to me and asked me to think up some sort of motivational program bullshit thing to help improve it. I fucking hate shit like that. But, one night, I was a bit under the influence, and I decided to have fun with it, and just write up the stupidest thing I could think of, just to see if my boss would buy it. So, I wrote a little story about some aliens from the planet Pluto who were vacationing in the solar system, and they were stuck on Mercury, and they needed help to get home, and every couple days, if whatever the problem was had improved (it was something more tangible than “morale,” it was a measurable thing), the aliens would move up a planet, and when they reached Pluto, we could have a little space themed party. Pretty stupid, but not as stupid as the thing where every time we met some goal (alas, can’t remember what that was either), we got an extra 15 minutes added on to our break time, but only if we went outside and played horseshoes. :rolleyes: The next day, I emailed the boss my great ideas. She absolutely loved them. It was the most creative, awesome thing she’d ever heard, and guaranteed to totally solve the problem. Last week, my boss came up to me and asked me to think up another little activity, this time as a system to reward people for using a productivity enhancing thing I came up with, because “that plutonians thing was so great, we need something like that!” Grrr. I don’t wanna. My productivity enhancing thingie is actually a good idea, and I don’t want it associated with a stupid little game. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/53 "2005-04-26T18:24:24Z")
> [@RandomLetters](#): > > I work at a Walmart right now and I figured out the perfect way to avoid the dreaded squiggly - the first time they hit me with that, I looked confused, and then skipped right to the “What’s that spell” part - and everyone of my coworkers simultaineously yelled “Wall!”. 😃 Since then, no squiggly for me! > > Overall, its not that bad of a job - I work overnights, and we have too much actual work to do than to waste time on the company cheer BS. I almost feel sorry for the day shift people who have to put up with this crap, until I remember most of them are incredibly lazy, and don’t get anything done at all. We work at the same store 😃 hey, we got less than .4 shrink this inventory! At least our folks are also too lazy to steal! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/54 "2005-04-26T18:47:52Z")
I haven’t read the thread, but the company I used to work for adopted the ‘Fish Philosohpy’. I thought it was a bit dumb at the start. People adopted the ‘having fun’ part without paying as much attention to the ‘getting the work done’ part. Every corporate rah-rah session was fishy. New programs were named after fish. (The one that I remember at the moment is ‘Barracuda’.) The cheap-ass ‘employee lounge’ was called ‘The Aquarium’. Those of us who were just trying to get our work done just had to roll our eyes. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/55 "2005-04-26T20:40:49Z")
> [@Mishell](#): > > So, I wrote a little story about some aliens from the planet Pluto who were vacationing in the solar system, and they were stuck on Mercury, and they needed help to get home, and every couple days, if whatever the problem was had improved (it was something more tangible than “morale,” it was a measurable thing), the aliens would move up a planet, and when they reached Pluto, we could have a little space themed party. Plutonians are teh s uck. I think what infuriates me the most about the whole forced socialization thing is that it feels like they’re stealing my mental energy, in a way above and beyond that which they are allowed to utilize for work. I am not a very social person, meaning I have a limited capacity for socialness, and I prefer to spend those few “on” hours with friends I sought out on my own instead of people who I was forced to be with because of circumstance. Social encounters take a lot out of me and it takes me awhile to recuperate from them, especially if I’ve been hanging around the second group of people instead of the first. I do not feel that making me totally stress out over what I’m going to say to these people I barely know and how I’m going to remember their names and what I’m going to say about myself at the “icebreaker” sessions that won’t make me seem like even more of an outsider is part of my job description. It’s like a program designed by extroverts just to torture the rest of us and make us feel bad that we’re not like them. God, I have so much trouble even getting into the headspace of an extrovert, it’s like they’re not even the same species as me. Freaks. At least the job I have now allows me to work autonomously. I don’t think half the people there even know my name. It’s great. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/56 "2005-04-26T22:57:28Z")
> [@JSexton](#): > > [blah blah blah my job is great blah blah blah] > > I love my job. I may be the only person in this thread to say that without sarcasm. OK dude, what’s the catch? Do you work for a “charity” that works by prying social security money away from half-senile seniors? Are you corporate headquarters for a chain of paycheck-advance stores? Are there bare-ass paddlings for underperforming employees? Do you run a power plant that consumes puppies to generate clean, renewable energy? Does he periodically pull out a glock and brain a random employee? Do you work to keep the metric system down? Do you sell extended warranties for cheap consumer electronics? At the end of each month, do the two worst performers have to play Deerhunter-style roulette? Something is awfully fishy about your story. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Catfood\_Purrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Catfood\_Purrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catfood_Purrito)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/57 "2005-04-26T23:49:05Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > Plutonians are teh s uck. 😃 > [@](#): > > I think what infuriates me the most about the whole forced socialization thing is that it feels like they’re stealing my mental energy, in a way above and beyond that which they are allowed to utilize for work. I am not a very social person, meaning I have a limited capacity for socialness, and I prefer to spend those few “on” hours with friends I sought out on my own instead of people who I was forced to be with because of circumstance. Social encounters take a lot out of me and it takes me awhile to recuperate from them, especially if I’ve been hanging around the second group of people instead of the first. I do not feel that making me totally stress out over what I’m going to say to these people I barely know and how I’m going to remember their names and what I’m going to say about myself at the “icebreaker” sessions that won’t make me seem like even more of an outsider is part of my job description. It’s like a program designed by extroverts just to torture the rest of us and make us feel bad that we’re not like them. God, I have so much trouble even getting into the headspace of an extrovert, it’s like they’re not even the same species as me. Freaks. > > At least the job I have now allows me to work autonomously. I don’t think half the people there even know my name. It’s great. I feel exactly the same way…my job used to be nice and autonomous, I hardly ever had to leave my QA cave. Alas, my boss decided I needed more interaction with the rest of the department. One month to go, and I’ll be working at home, where I don’t have to talk to ANYBODY, except through email. It will be a beautiful thing. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/58 "2005-04-27T05:28:56Z")
> [@Beadalin](#): > > In case anyone hasn’t been here yet: > [Demotivators® - The World’s Best Demotivational Posters - Despair, Inc.](http://www.despair.com/indem.html) I LOVE despair dot com! I love de-motivation. ---
**Author:** ![infamousmom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d6d6ee/32.png) [@infamousmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infamousmom)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/59 "2005-04-27T06:21:33Z")
The only thing worse than having to read that stupid Fish! book is to be forced to sit and watch the video. Yeah baby, we are all so inspired by these thorazine-snarfing happybabies throwing fish to hell and gone. The management would do far better reading _Brave New World_ instead. Oooh, I’m a Delta! I’m a happy little Delta! I wouldn’t want to be a nasty old Alpha. Deltas are best! I love being a Delta! Watch out for that fish! ---
**Author:** ![infamousmom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d6d6ee/32.png) [@infamousmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infamousmom)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2005, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027/60 "2005-04-27T06:29:37Z")
> [@continuity eror](#): > > Don’t cheer, organize. Man, I wish. I worked at Fry’s Electronics for three years, and they copied every damn thing Wal-Mart ever got wrong. Stupid cheer in the morning (instead of the “squiggly” we had the “apostrophe”) and all these “employee appreciation” meetings that started at six in the morning. You were supposed to show up even if it was your day off, and eat cheap stale food and listen to loud music and see the same butt-kissers get the same awards, over and over again. If they’d really wanted to appreciate us, they would have canned the meeting and just handed us all a $20 instead. :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-fish-for-life/301027.md?page=4)