# To Hell with the House! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 6, 2006, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510 "2006-04-06T01:32:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/21 "2006-04-06T20:24:21Z")
> [@rowe](#): > > I’m not saying I automatically wouldn’t have gotten married but I would have at least researched it beforehand. He assumed that everything would be dandy if he married an illegal immigrant and now he’s crying foul. I actually did look into things before I was married because my wife is from a country in the ‘Axis of Evil.’ I wanted to know if I had to do anything special or if there would be any problems because of that. Turns out, there wasn’t anything out of the ordinary I had to do so I was happy. So, you’re saying that, before **Gustave** married his wife, he should have done research so he’d know what laws are going to be proposed by the House of Representatives several years later? Where would he do this research, precisely? I don’t recall any library I’ve ever been in that had a crystal ball hidden in the stacks. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/22 "2006-04-06T20:30:18Z")
> [@Seven](#): > > So let me get this straight. Your wife breaks the law, you learn about this and help, and now you’re upset because why? Because it is against the law in the first place? Because love should override laws? I think you’re being harsh. They are married, and assuming it’s a committed, legal marriage that wasn’t entered into just to get **Ms Gustave** a green card, then shouldn’t she somehow be able to acquire legal status? I am greatly concerned about the immigration situation and don’t think the USA should be an economic escape valve for countries that are so dysfunctional that people can’t earn a living there, but on the other hand I definitely don’t believe that undocumented aliens who have established deep familial and social ties, as I think the OP’s wife as done, should not be sent packing, and their spouses should certainly not be felons. ---
**Author:** ![Faruiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@Faruiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faruiza)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/23 "2006-04-06T20:37:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, you’re saying that, before **Gustave** married his wife, he should have done research so he’d know what laws are going to be proposed by the House of Representatives several years later? Where would he do this research, precisely? I don’t recall any library I’ve ever been in that had a crystal ball hidden in the stacks. _sigh_ **Miller** , c’mon. He says he already knew she had broken the law. Now if you’d like to ask if he somehow could have known whether or not the penalty for said broken law would become a felony, and whether or not it might have influenced his decision, that’s fine, but saying that lack of research at the time gets him off the hook because he couldn’t have known he was breaking a law is not valid. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/24 "2006-04-06T21:10:55Z")
I’m still trying to get my mind around the idea that all the taxes she owes on $9 an hour is $1. Every other job I’ve worked, if I earned $9, I’d be paying about $4.50… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/25 "2006-04-06T21:18:55Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I’m still trying to get my mind around the idea that all the taxes she owes on $9 an hour is $1. Every other job I’ve worked, if I earned $9, I’d be paying about $4.50… Why would you be paying 50%, even at a much higher tax bracket and including Social Security and UI it only works out to around 33%. At $9.00 per hour and assuming full time it should be closer to 28% with variations for State income tax. Let’s call it $2.52 in taxes per hour. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/26 "2006-04-06T21:37:46Z")
> [@Faruiza](#): > > _sigh_ > **Miller** , c’mon. He says he already knew she had broken the law. > > Now if you’d like to ask if he somehow could have known whether or not the penalty for said broken law would become a felony, and whether or not it might have influenced his decision, that’s fine, but saying that lack of research at the time gets him off the hook because he couldn’t have known he was breaking a law is not valid. Good thing I didn’t say that, then, isn’t it? The OP isn’t complaining about the laws as they currently stand. He’s complaining about proposed changes to the law. **rowe** is babbling about how he should have researched the law before getting married. But since the whole point of the rant is about proposals that didn’t exsist at the time he was getting married, researching the law wouldn’t have helped him much, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Faruiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@Faruiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faruiza)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/27 "2006-04-06T21:51:18Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Good thing I didn’t say that, then, isn’t it? > > The OP isn’t complaining about the laws as they currently stand. He’s complaining about proposed changes to the law. **rowe** is babbling about how he should have researched the law before getting married. But since the whole point of the rant is about proposals that didn’t exsist at the time he was getting married, researching the law wouldn’t have helped him much, would it? Fair enough. Then continuing to break the same law in light of possible new penalties that you can see coming is what it is. I’m not saying I have a solution, or that I think he should up and divorce his wife and have her deported. Just a question, though. Because I honestly don’t know. If a man commits a murder, and doesn’t get caught for that murder until after some new law or punishment is put into effect, does the new punishment automatically not apply to him? If someone robs a bank in 2005, and gets apprehended in 2006, after there are changes in strength to the penalty for that crime, are they only sentenced according to the former penalty? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/28 "2006-04-06T23:16:52Z")
> [@Faruiza](#): > > Fair enough. > Then continuing to break the same law in light of possible new penalties that you can see coming is what it is. I’m not saying I have a solution, or that I think he should up and divorce his wife and have her deported. > > Just a question, though. Because I honestly don’t know. If a man commits a murder, and doesn’t get caught for that murder until after some new law or punishment is put into effect, does the new punishment automatically not apply to him? If someone robs a bank in 2005, and gets apprehended in 2006, after there are changes in strength to the penalty for that crime, are they only sentenced according to the former penalty? Except I don’t think that marrying an illegal immigrant was or is even vaugely illegal. There’s no duty to report illegal immigrants as things stand now, is there? ---
**Author:** ![Faruiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@Faruiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faruiza)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/29 "2006-04-06T23:46:52Z")
> [@Manda JO](#): > > Except I don’t think that marrying an illegal immigrant was or is even vaugely illegal. There’s no duty to report illegal immigrants as things stand now, is there? Well, [yeah](http://www.reportillegals.com/law.html). I’ll grant that in a quick and dirty search, this may not be the ideal cite, and I’m trying to find the actual law that applies here. I’m running out of time, though, and I won’t be back near a computer until this evening. I’ll either do better finding a cite or I’ll relent. Just didn’t want’cha all thinking I ran away. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Faruiza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@Faruiza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Faruiza)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/30 "2006-04-07T03:09:05Z")
Ok, so I found the actual part of statute that makes not reporting an illegal immigrant a crime. [Cite.](http://uscis.gov/lpBin/lpext.dll/inserts/slb/slb-1/slb-20/slb-8078?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm#slb-act274) This is strictly just to answer **MandaJO**. Not to make the target on my forehead any larger. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/31 "2006-04-07T05:38:15Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Let me respond for Gustave. Fuck off you mealymouth dick for brains. Fantastic. Thanks. 😃 In any case the OP knew she was in country illegally **before** they were married. At this point the pair of them should have started working the proper channels. If that means she goes back to her country for a short time while visas and paperwork get processed, then that is what they have to do. If for some reason their failure to follow the law catches up with them, who is to blame? Surely not mealymouth me. Does it suck for them? Sure it does. In their case it seems to be fairly harmless. They’re in love, they aren’t putting a strain on the system, they aren’t hurting anyone. But the law is the law. They should have followed it from day one. I’m in the process of moving to a country with strict immigration laws. It is taking quite a long time to work the process. Everytime we turn around there is yet another form, another hoop to jump through and more fees. But at the end of the day when we move it will be legal, we’ll have proper papers to work and we’ll have the ball rolling if we decide to stay long-term or become citizens. We could have risked it and moved and hoped “it could be worked out later”, but if we got caught it would have really fucked our future chances of staying. Sorry. I can’t get too worked up over this or fully understand the problem. You break the law, you deal with it. Oh yeah, and this dick for brains drives the speed limit, pays taxes, doesn’t rob banks or drive around drunk. I come to complete stops are stop signs and do not litter. Sorry for following the rules. I know how uncool it is with you kids. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/32 "2006-04-07T05:50:48Z")
Though not married to any illegal immigrant (nor to anybody else, for that matter), I fully support the OP. They passed the same kind of law here some years ago and it irritates me to no end. As far as I know, they use it mostly to bust people belonging to associations helping illegals immigrants and refugees. I’m not aware of a case involving someone “helping” his spouse, but there could have been some, for all I know. ---
**Author:** ![Seven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Seven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seven)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/33 "2006-04-07T05:54:41Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I think you’re being harsh. They are married, and assuming it’s a committed, legal marriage that wasn’t entered into just to get **Ms Gustave** a green card, then shouldn’t she somehow be able to acquire legal status? Yes. One would think that would be the case. One would also think that would be something you work out before you get married or just after. There are people who have jobs dedicated to these very issues. It might have been a good idea for the OP to speak with one of them around the time of marrage. ---
**Author:** ![rowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@rowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/34 "2006-04-07T15:58:20Z")
You’re right, the OP should have just assumed that nothing unfavorable would ever happen due to his marriage to someone who is in the country illegally. :rolleyes: My so-called babbling wasn’t faulting him for not researching possible future laws. I said that he should have at least looked into what could result from marrying an illegal immigrant. Seems to be a pretty logical thing to do, right? A lawyer could have advised him of any possible negatives before the wedding. I never suggested consulting a magical crystal ball to peer into the House’s future legislation. > [@Miller](#): > > Good thing I didn’t say that, then, isn’t it? > > The OP isn’t complaining about the laws as they currently stand. He’s complaining about proposed changes to the law. **rowe** is babbling about how he should have researched the law before getting married. But since the whole point of the rant is about proposals that didn’t exsist at the time he was getting married, researching the law wouldn’t have helped him much, would it? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/35 "2006-04-07T16:31:42Z")
**Gustave** , I’m sorry you’re in this situation. On the other hand, I’m a legal immigrant to the US, and I’ve been a naturalized citizen for nearly 20 years now. Actions like yours and especially your wife’s make my life harder. I worked for a company which employed illegal aliens, although I didn’t know it. I had to produce a copy of my naturalization certificate to prove I wasn’t one. A cousin of mine fell in love with an American and moved here to the States legally, in part to marry him. The marriage fell apart, unfortunately, but she did take the appropriate steps to make sure she could stay in the States legally. If she hadn’t been, she would have gone back to England. As I said, I’m not unsympathetic, but I know that even being a legal immigrant to the United States involves certain things which don’t apply to native-born citizens. I accept those consequences as part of my life. If someone chooses to emigrate to this country illegally, I don’t see why she should be exempt from those consequences. If someone chooses to marry someone whom he knows is in this country illegally, I don’t see why he should be exempt from those consequences. I’m not saying it’s easy; I’m not saying there aren’t bureaucratic hoops to jump through. I am saying that your wife’s refusal to jump through them makes things more difficult for those of us who have. With regret, CJ ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/36 "2006-04-07T16:49:59Z")
> [@](#): > > As I said, I’m not unsympathetic, but I know that even being a legal immigrant to the United States involves certain things which don’t apply to native-born citizens. I accept those consequences as part of my life. If someone chooses to emigrate to this country illegally, I don’t see why she should be exempt from those consequences. If someone chooses to marry someone whom he knows is in this country illegally, I don’t see why he should be exempt from those consequences. I’m not saying it’s easy; I’m not saying there aren’t bureaucratic hoops to jump through. I am saying that your wife’s refusal to jump through them makes things more difficult for those of us who have. I think that you are missing the point here. What he is complaining about is the proposed house bill that would make it a felony to give any aid to illegal immigrants, **not** the laws that are currently on the books. The analogue to this would be if someone passed the strip the naturalized citizens right to vote act. Surely then you would be a little more upset. My reading of the OP does not indicate that they refused to jump through the hoops to legalize them but rather that an immigration attorney told them that she couldn’t. If anything they tried, but were dissuaded by an immigration attorney who told them that there was no hope. The OP’s second post states > [@](#): > > We’ve already done this. Because her mother put her name on some kind of petition some seven or eight years ago, she CANNOT gain residency by way of her marriage to me. The immigration lawyer made that very clear. **Gustave** I would further tell the OP, get another lawyer. I don’t think that your first attorney gave you good advice. I think it would be a wise decision for you to go see a _competent_ immigration attorney. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/37 "2006-04-07T17:21:18Z")
Tell ya what, **rowe** : why don’t you get back to me when you find a point that’s vaguely related to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/38 "2006-04-08T00:54:06Z")
> [@Gustave](#): > > We’ve already done this. Because her mother put her name on some kind of petition some seven or eight years ago, she CANNOT gain residency by way of her marriage to me. The immigration lawyer made that very clear. **Please** listen to all the people who are telling you to talk to a different lawyer. I will be blunter than they are; your current lawyer is an incompetent moron at best. It’s entirely possible to have more than one immigrant petition pending on one’s behalf at a time; in fact, a good strategist will frequently pursue all possible avenues simultaneously, because you never know what will happen to processing backlogs (or family relationships, for that matter - sometimes petitioners die, people get divorced, life happens). If your wife entered the U.S. illegally rather than overstaying a visa, it’s more complicated (see details [here;](http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/lpreligibility.htm) but people do it all the time. If you post a bit more about your location, I may be able to refer you to a competnet, non-sleazy immigration attorney, and lord knows there are buckets of incometent and/or sleazy ones out there. Other than that, a good screening criterion is whether they are members of the [American Immigration Lawyers Association,](http://www.aila.org/) which is a decent indication of a serious focus on immigration law. Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal ---
**Author:** ![liirogue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dbc845/32.png) [@liirogue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liirogue)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/39 "2006-04-08T01:28:54Z")
**Gustave** , I feel your pain. I married my husband 3 1/2 years ago. He was an illegal immigrant from Romania, and he had overstayed his visa. Things went very well and quite quickly at first - we were on track to having his permanent resident status within a year of filing. We have now been stuck in the “name check” phase for over 2 years. No one can (or will) tell us what’s going on. We will be going to an attorney once we get the funds, but it’s difficult. Good luck, get yourself a good lawyer (I can vouch for **Eva Luna** - she knows her stuff, so follow her advice!), and keep your chin up! ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510/40 "2006-04-18T17:22:49Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > I don’t understand this part. Where did she get this “tax number” from? I bet the IRS gave it to her. They want her money. > [@The Los Angeles Times (from this Monday)](#): > > They may be here illegally, but tens of thousands of undocumented immigrants are expected to abide by Uncle Sam’s rules by filing tax returns — with the hope of someday becoming U.S. citizens. > > Though there is no way of knowing how many people are filing taxes in response to the national debate on immigration, Southern California tax preparers are seeing a steady stream of clients eager to be on record as taxpayers. > > “There has definitely been an increase,” said Noemi Munoz, a senior tax advisor at H&R Block in Los Angeles. “After whatever they’ve heard on TV, I guess that’s why they want to file taxes.” > > **Some illegal immigrants have long paid taxes through special identification numbers issued by the Internal Revenue Service for people who are not eligible for Social Security numbers — whether out of a sense of duty or hope for eventual citizenship.** > But now that the U.S. Senate is considering a broad proposal that could lead to citizenship for migrants who have lived here for at least two years, there is a greater incentive to file a tax return. Some are pulling out their W-2s and heading to the nearest tax office — not just to pay this year’s bill but to catch up on back taxes. In interviews, many said they wanted to prove how long they had lived in the United States and that they would be good citizens. > > “It’s important for all of us to pay our taxes, to have proof that we are working in this country,” said Efrain Santa Cruz, 44, an illegal immigrant from Mexico who recently filed his return, “so someday maybe they will give us papers.” Bolding mine. > [@missbunny](#): > > Is it in someone else’s name? Is she working under her own name (that is, the employer knows what _her_ actual name is) It probably is her real name. > [@missbunny](#): > > “Her employer says she really makes ten dollars an hour, rather than nine, because he deducts taxes”? What was discussed when she took the job? Probably he’s just taking advantage of her, and she’s just glad to have a job. You know, even ill-gotten money is taxable., and the IRS goes after it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-hell-with-the-house/351510.md?page=3)