# To Mask or Not to Mask, that is the Question **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [August 12, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910 "2020-08-12T18:08:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/182 "2020-11-18T07:57:48Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > Just very roughly: Overall, there’s about 30% who say they don’t wear masks in public. There are 328 million Americans. 30% of that is 98 million. There are plenty of unmasked-in-public people who haven’t been infected, yet. What is your sense, from what you’ve read, of what portion of those getting infected are mask wearers and what portion are not? ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/183 "2020-11-18T08:10:45Z")
No idea. But I have read studies, and used my logical reasoning ability, which indicate that for a disease that is spread via droplets and aerosolized particles, wearing a mask will generally help prevent the spread of disease from the wearer, and give some degree of protection to the wearer. It is a factor, at a population level at the very least. I have N95 and similar respirators from my woodworking and other projects that require it. Are there mask deniers out there who doubt that those help to protect people from inhaling, say, harmful plywood dust? Would they deny that, if you don’t have an N95, wearing a plain dust mask will at least keep the biggest particles from being inhaled? I just don’t get the skepticism. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/184 "2020-11-18T08:21:23Z")
I hear you, but the skepticism comes from the apparent fact that it doesn’t seem to be working, on a population level. It’s really as simple as that, that the proof is in the pudding. Maybe not proof that proper mask usage, by everyone and all the time, doesn’t stop the thing. But proof, seemingly, that the best we seem to be able to do with them – again, on a population level – just doesn’t seem to be good enough. And if one is intrigued enough to wonder why that might be the case, then one could use his logical reasoning abilities to find explanations. They are not hard to find. Hard to prove? Sure. But so are the ones that run the other way. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/185 "2020-11-18T09:21:23Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > And if one is intrigued enough to wonder why that might be the case, then one could use his logical reasoning abilities to find explanations. They are not hard to find. Could you provide some explanations? You seem to be alluding to something, but I don’t know what that is. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/186 "2020-11-18T09:33:54Z")
Sure, but nothing more than what would be the obvious explanations, if it were true. Among those: 1. That the kinds of masks people are using, in the way that they are using them, are effective for stopping large droplets and the like but are not effective at trapping aerosol particulates. 2. That even if they are effective after all, they are not worn at all times by even the most compliant of users, and the resultant unprotected breaths are enough to cause infection. 3. That the amount of spread through fomites is underestimated. Those are the first three off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/187 "2020-11-18T09:48:24Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > Sure, but nothing more than what would be the obvious explanations, if it were true. Ah OK, those are all true because mask wearing is a mitigation strategy, not a solution. The solution is for everyone to be quarantined by themselves. That’s not viable, so people are trying to be quarantined by “family” units. To the extent that’s not sustainable, then mask wearing is a mitigation strategy to help stop the spread that is unavoidable. Do you think that mask wearing is 100% ineffective (doesn’t ever work) or not 100% effective (doesn’t work all the time) or somewhere in between? ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/188 "2020-11-18T09:57:58Z")
Somewhere in between, I’d imagine, given the ability to trap what they do trap, but far closer to the former than the latter. I mean, I don’t believe anyone would feel comfortable walking into a room with known infected people even if all were wearing masks. At least, not anyone particularly concerned about catching the virus himself. I think deep down most people have a sense of what’s really going on. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/189 "2020-11-18T10:52:23Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > I hear you, but the skepticism comes from the apparent fact that it doesn’t seem to be working What do you base this on? ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/190 "2020-11-18T11:08:09Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#): > > What do you base this on? On what appears to be rampant spread, in many different parts of the world, in places with mask mandates. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/191 "2020-11-18T12:24:52Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > All have to remember (specially **SayTwo** ) that those are rates of mask use in public. > > In the US the rates of use for family and friends gatherings are the pits My state publishes sources of “clusters”, and hey, the enormous majority of clusters are homes. > [@SayTwo](#): > > I hear you, but the skepticism comes from the apparent fact that it doesn’t seem to be working, on a population level. It’s really as simple as that, that the proof is in the pudding. Maybe not proof that proper mask usage, by everyone and all the time, doesn’t stop the thing I have been auditing MIT’s covid course this year. In one of the lectures, the speaker asserts that rates of infection among staff at mass general hospital are lower than rates among the population at large. Mass general hospital is a place where everyone wears masks, unlike the state at large. She points out that this is direct, population evidence that masks work. That would be surgical masks, because mostly that’s what’s worn in hospitals, except when treating people known to be infectious (or when doing covid testing). I’ve spent too much time in hospitals recently, and staff, patients, and visitors all wear surgical masks (except patients, alone in their private room, are allowed to take them off.) ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/192 "2020-11-18T17:15:24Z")
[Oh boy.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/saytwo-is-an-ignorant-fuckstick-of-the-highest-order/924070/17) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/193 "2020-11-18T17:25:26Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I have been auditing MIT’s covid course this year. In one of the lectures, the speaker asserts that rates of infection among staff at mass general hospital are lower than rates among the population at large. Mass general hospital is a place where everyone wears masks, unlike the state at large. She points out that this is direct, population evidence that masks work. My daughter and her fiancee work in a busy hospital. They wear masks and face shields all day long. When not working, they wear masks when they have to shop, etc. They’ve remained healthy despite their occupation. Several times they have gotten tested, then visited with me, where we hang out outside and share a meal as safely as practically possible. It is a bit unnerving that their biggest risk is socializing with me, but it fills me with joy that they feel the risk is worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/194 "2020-11-18T18:49:13Z")
On the topic of workplace precautions, here’s a post I wrote a couple weeks ago in another thread. Short version: Masks deliver very obvious statistically relevant benefits when compliance is high enough. Which it is emphatically NOT in most of the USA most of the time. > [@Am I becoming agoraphobic, claustrophobic or something new?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-becoming-agoraphobic-claustrophobic-or-something-new/924458/9): > > I work for a big airline. We have multiple tens of thousands of pilots and flight attendants. It’s a LOT of people. They travel in public every day all over the US and a bunch outside the US. When on-duty everybody, but especially FAs, are stuck in close proximity to crowds of other humans indoors in airports and on airplanes. When off-duty on the road they’re eating in restaurants and staying in hotel rooms that somebody else slept in last night. Of necessity they touch vast amounts of public and shared stuff from doorknobs to flush handles to keyboards to … And they’re exposed to a never-ending randomly selected cross-section of (mostly US-based) humanity. Actually they’re _not_ exposed to a random selection of humanity. The passengers flying are heavily selected from the _less_ sequestered more risk tolerant part of the populace. > > And of course they also have whatever exposures they do in their daily home lives, going shopping, dealing with kids in school, and everything else that the rest of America deals with. > > With all that incremental scary exposure above and beyond that of e.g. the OP, how much more disease are we suffering versus the country as a whole? We’re suffering less. > > Our weekly statistics show that we, the crew force, have (a little) less COVID than the US at large. This has been true every week since the beginning. Our numbers ebb and flow about in sync with the US totals, but always lower. Despite much more aggressive monitoring and testing than is the US average. > > Why are our numbers better? IMO it’s simple: we _all_ wear masks seriously and we wash hands regularly, _at least while on the road_ . And many, but by no means all of the flying public does the same _at least while they’re flying_ , if not the moment they get outside the airport. We certainly have our share of anti-maskers while off duty. > > If 10s of thousands of people can spend about 2 weeks of every month hanging out on airplanes and in hotels and restaurants and still not get sick, … Then apparently wearing masks in that situation works. As long as substantially everybody else around you does too. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/195 "2020-11-19T07:27:06Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > On what appears to be rampant spread, in many different parts of the world, in places with mask mandates. Ah, so you’ve somehow arrived at the conclusion that no other factors could be at fault here, such as social gatherings in private homes where people are not masked and those who defy mask mandates. This sort of logic reminds me of the Wyoming town where I used to live where people are still angry that even though schools closed last spring, COVID didn’t disappear and is spiking now. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/196 "2020-11-19T07:37:56Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > Ah, so you’ve somehow arrived at the conclusion that no other factors could be at fault here, such as social gatherings in private homes where people are not masked and those who defy mask mandates. This sort of logic reminds me of the Wyoming town where I used to live where people are still angry that even though schools closed last spring, COVID didn’t disappear and is spiking now. I’m interested in all the reasons mask mandates do not seem to evidently work. Why wouldn’t anyone be? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/197 "2020-11-19T08:02:09Z")
I’m sure that if you look hard enough to find a reason not to wear a mask, you will find one. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/198 "2020-11-19T08:06:18Z")
Assuming you accept that Trump voters are less likely to mask than non-Trump voters, we do have evidence for the effectiveness of masks. [Counties with worst virus surges overwhelmingly voted Trump.](https://apnews.com/article/counties-worst-virus-surges-voted-trump-d671a483534024b5486715da6edb6ebf) I think we agree that the act of voting for Trump does not give one the virus, so the level of masking would seem a reasonable explanation for this data. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/199 "2020-11-19T08:11:15Z")
You think that’s evidence that masks work? Dear God, what has happened to us… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/200 "2020-11-19T08:14:55Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > Dear God, what has happened to us… We are listening to immoral leaders pandering to ignorant followers…and it is killing us. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/201 "2020-11-19T08:15:06Z")
Counties with lower mask use have the worst virus surges, in general. That seems like evidence to me. Not proof, of course, but definitely evidence. Do you think that the incidence of surges is purely random? Hell, the White House is evidence that not using masks is related to spreading the virus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910.md?page=11)