# To Mask or Not to Mask, that is the Question **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [August 12, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910 "2020-08-12T18:08:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Joeu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joeu/32/2911_2.png) [@Joeu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joeu)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/21 "2020-08-12T22:33:56Z")
You can’t really isolate masks as a variable if you compare influenza cases between Japan and the US, though, even if you do Tokyo vs. NYC as a rough model. Are vaccination rates the same? Average age of population? Housing density (people per household)? All of those, it seems to me, especially vaccination, would affect the number of flu cases more readily than masks would (or as readily). And which year? Flu rates vary pretty widely in different years. Beyond that, the flu is not really a good model for covid. I have yet to see any reliable citations for any studies demonstrating that masks are harmful. Nor any studies demonstrating that they **can’t possibly** reduce the rates of covid infections. And lots of studies demonstrating that masks **can** help. So…something that definitely reduces the risk of covid, with very little cost, no side effects, no danger or risk of its own (other than mild discomfort or inconvenience). That does seem like clear logic. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/22 "2020-08-12T22:41:19Z")
He was correcting his statement that the country could wear a mask: > [@Pheonix1](#): > > Sorry, I mispoke. I meant to say that mask wearing is very common in Japan. Japan itself can’t wear a mask of course. Lol. Maybe you should use the whole quote. Anyway, now I’m curious about his statement about the flu, but it looks like it could be hard to compare. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/23 "2020-08-12T22:43:05Z")
> [@Joeu](#): > > Beyond that, the flu is not really a good model for covid. I understand this to be the case, but I just don’t get why – they seem pretty similar in terms of how they are transmitted. I should put a call into Fauci or something. I wonder if he’s busy these days. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/24 "2020-08-12T22:44:44Z")
It just seemed to me you missed the first part as you seemed to have ignored it. But to make you happy: > [@Pheonix1](#): > > Sorry, I mispoke. I meant to say that mask wearing is very common in Japan. Japan itself can’t wear a mask of course. Lol. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/25 "2020-08-12T22:45:20Z")
Thanks! I’m ecstatic! ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/26 "2020-08-12T22:49:24Z")
I’m happy you’re happy 🙂 🙂 Have a good night. ---
**Author:** ![eschrodinger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschrodinger/32/122_2.png) [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/27 "2020-08-12T23:17:16Z")
This study suggests that typical masks of most varieties reduce (by blocking) respiratory droplets coming from a person when they speak. But, there were masks that made _more_ droplets, likely by breaking large droplets into smaller ones – neck gaitors. > **[Simple New Experiment Reveals Which Face Masks Are Best at Blocking Droplets](https://www.sciencealert.com/simple-low-cost-experiment-reveals-which-face-masks-are-best-at-blocking-droplets)** > > We know that by wearing masks, we can help reduce the transmission of COVID-19, and we know that not every type of face mask is equally good at blocking viral droplets when we cough, sneeze, talk – or even simply breathe. But how can we really... ---
**Author:** ![Pheonix1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pheonix1/32/4236_2.png) [@Pheonix1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pheonix1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/28 "2020-08-12T23:45:05Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’m trying to find stats on flu cases in Japan vs. the US, but I’m not having any luck. That’s the other part of the statement, I guess – if that poster is right that they wear masks “all the time” in Japan, it would be interesting to see if it reduces the per capita flu rate (although it’s much more densely populated, and I don’t know how they are about vaccinations vs. the US. So many factors… Sorry, I really thought that ubiquitous mask use in Japan was common knowledge, certainly in the Covid news watching crowd. It’s notable because it’s all people are able to credit for their good luck with covid. > **[Is the Secret to Japan’s Virus Success Right in Front of Its Face? (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/world/asia/japan-coronavirus-masks.html)** > > In America, masks have become a weapon in the culture wars. In Japan, wearing one is no big deal, and deaths have stayed low. No, they don’t all wear one all the time but they are in most people’s wardrobe it seems. I’ll look for a reference for Japan’s flu numbers. I did once before and I remember them being pretty middle of the pack amongst developed nations. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/29 "2020-08-12T23:49:58Z")
The general effectiveness of masks in preventing infection has been known to medicine for a long time. It’s why doctors wear masks and face shields during surgery, and why PPE for health care workers includes masks. The question of whether a random mask made out of random cloth is effective is somewhat open, but the data strongly points to _yes, it is_. The model for why this is so isn’t that complicated. When you breath out or talk, stuff comes out of your mouth and goes into the air. If you’re wearing even a somewhat porous mask, that stuff will not go as far and some of it will be caught by the mask. The results about gaitors are of course showing that it’s not quite that simple, but it’s still pretty likely and clear that more people wearing masks will reduce transmission. ---
**Author:** ![Pheonix1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pheonix1/32/4236_2.png) [@Pheonix1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pheonix1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2020, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/30 "2020-08-12T23:53:12Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > understand this to be the case, but I just don’t get why – they seem pretty similar in terms of how they are transmitted. I should put a call into Fauci or something. I wonder if he’s busy these days I think that surfaces/touch transmission is better established with influenza, covid not so much. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/31 "2020-08-13T00:06:33Z")
> [@Pheonix1](#): > > It’s notable because it’s all people are able to credit for their good luck with covid. Based on my observations when I’ve traveled there, if their usage rate of masks is all it takes, then the US will be more than fine if those who are concerned wear theirs and those who are not concerned don’t. Now for how to get that through to the former who get belligerent with the latter… ---
**Author:** ![Pheonix1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pheonix1/32/4236_2.png) [@Pheonix1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pheonix1)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/32 "2020-08-13T00:09:02Z")
I don’t know when you were there but I would bet mask usage was particularly high since March. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/33 "2020-08-13T00:14:54Z")
> [@Pheonix1](#): > > It’s notable because it’s all people are able to credit for their good luck with covid. It’s not the only thing. There are various theories that exposure to other coronaviruses provides some immunity, and that theory accounts for why many Asian countries have not been hit as hard. We’ll probably have a pretty solid understanding of exactly what happened in a few years. Until then, let’s wear masks. It very likely helps! ---
**Author:** ![Pheonix1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pheonix1/32/4236_2.png) [@Pheonix1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pheonix1)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/34 "2020-08-13T00:16:10Z")
Well, that’s been my theory for a while but I hadn’t noticed it being shared by anybody important. Lol. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/35 "2020-08-13T00:17:45Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I want you to back up your statement that the people in Japan wear masks all the time, when there’s not a pandemic. Thanks. It’s rather common knowledge, which I suspect is why people are thinking you must be asking for something else. It’s so commonly known that I did nothing but type “japan masks” into google and found this rather good article: > **[The history behind Japan’s love of face masks](https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/07/04/national/science-health/japans-history-wearing-masks-coronavirus/)** > > In Japan, it's sometimes said that the eyes speak as much as the mouth. If you scroll down far enough past the COVID-19 info, you’ll find that Japan has had a history of face masks for over 100 years, well before the first SARS virus (which is why most other Eastern Asian countries have a culture of mask wearing). I hope that article is sufficient for you. I admit, I didn’t even know the actual history. Just that it was polite in Japan to wear a mask if you’re sick, and that masks has become fashion accessories. Edit: Man, I shouldn’t have spent so much time reading it and reworking how I’d word my post. I don’t want to pile on–but I’m gonna leave this because I really like the link. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/36 "2020-08-13T00:40:51Z")
I guess influenza lasts longer on surfaces? Anyway, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/37 "2020-08-13T00:44:37Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > Based on my observations when I’ve traveled there, if their usage rate of masks is all it takes, then the US will be more than fine if those who are concerned wear theirs and those who are not concerned don’t. Now for how to get that through to the former who get belligerent with the latter… How about we get to nearly 100% mask-wearing compliance and assholes who refuse to wear masks can just stay the fuck home? BTW, there seems to be much more belligerence among maskholes towards intelligent and caring people than the other way around. Did you see the video of the guy threatening the gas station cashier who had to be carried out by his son? How about the maskhole woman who purposely coughed into a baby’s face? How about that maskhole who knocked over some displays? ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/38 "2020-08-13T00:53:53Z")
I have not seen those videos, no, but yes, you do make a good point. I wish there was no belligerence at all on this issue, from any side. And I also wish there could be a situation where, say, 75% of the people wore masks and were happy about what they were doing to protect not only themselves but also others, and didn’t feel threatened or attacked, individually or as a community, by the rest. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/39 "2020-08-13T01:00:33Z")
The problem is that the people wearing masks are being threatened by the maskless. They are being threatened individually and as a community. This isn’t rocket science. Why can’t we get to 99% compliance? Are 25% of the population too fucking stupid or too fucking selfish to help out the rest of us? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2020, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910/40 "2020-08-13T01:02:35Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > too fucking selfish to help out the rest of us? This is my guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mask-or-not-to-mask-that-is-the-question/917910.md?page=3)