# To Mr. Cellucci
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [March 27, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531 "2003-03-27T15:11:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/1 "2003-03-27T15:11:58Z")
Fuck you.
That is all.
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### Author:  [@Sylkyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylkyn)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/2 "2003-03-27T15:22:56Z")
Yeah. What he said.
Link link bo-bink…banana fanna momink??
😕
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### Author:  [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/3 "2003-03-27T16:00:44Z")
[Original Article from the Globe and Mail](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030327.uamer0327/BNStory/National) can be read here.
[One reaction to comments:](http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030327.conaomi0327/BNStory/Front/)
There’s more, but I’m busy and don;t have time… but it is a starting point.
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### Author:  [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/4 "2003-03-27T16:14:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Barbarian \*
> \*\*Fuck you.
>
> That is all. \*\*
It sounds like Paul Celluci was merely the messenger; the message came right from the top, according to the links.
It’s sometimes easier to find fault than to make up after a fight. I hope the US and Canada (and the US and Mexico) can improve our relations, despite the current polarization.
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### Author:  [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/5 "2003-03-27T18:20:29Z")
I’d have explained myself, but I know that Cellucci and his puppet masters don’t give a fuck about what I think.
There’s nothing wrong with Cellucci being a puppet: that’s what diplomats are for, after all.
My beef is with Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and the angry posse who decided last century that Hussein needed to be wiped out, and then trumped up this war to do the job.
And now they’re pleading that Canada isn’t standing by the US “in its time of need,” so Canada is gonna be shut off economically from the US.
Well fuck that. If they had bothered to come up with solid evidence that the US was actually at risk from Hussein, Canada would have declared support. Heck, we actually have ships and soldiers in the Gulf, and if there was a viable link to terrorism we’d have no qualms helping in the fight. In fact, there are actually Canadian soldiers on US planes patrolling Iraq right now, even though we don’t support your war. Deal.
It’s not like the US has been oh so mighty generous with Canada since we helped you deal with planes on Sept 11, and helped mop up in Afghanistan. No, you took that support and rammed through massive tariffs on softwood lumber and a host of other industries. If that’s what Cellucci and Bush et al call support, I don’t want it.
Stop being a goddamn bully seeing the world in black and white. Canada does not support the invasion of Iraq-- because it’s obvious to people the world over that the US govt has wanted this since before it was the govt, and to hell with weapons of mass destruction or anything else.
But we don’t support Saddam either. He’s a mighty fucker who should be removed from power-- but this ain’t the way to do it. And don’t go getting pissy because we’re pointing it out.
Size doesn’t make you a great nation. What makes you great is how you treat people. Right now you’re doing a fucking lousy job, and you need to step back and take a breather.
I’d recommend the same for my fellow Canadians, but we’ve been doing that forever, and just getting fucked over, and fucked over, and fucked over…
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### Author:  [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/6 "2003-03-27T18:22:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by december \*
> **It sounds like Paul Celluci was merely the messenger; the message came right from the top, according to the links.**
Exactly!
> [@](#):
>
> _From the FIRST paragraph of the linked article_
> \*\*U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci was delivering a rebuke straight from President George W. Bush’s White House… \*\*
Can’t blame Cellucci for this.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/7 "2003-03-27T18:25:27Z")
You know, what the FUCK?
After we deported and detained Canadian citizens (and sent a few to the Middle East), we’re pissed at THEM???
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### Author:  [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/8 "2003-03-27T18:36:00Z")
The only thing that I am pissed about is the threats even though wer are fighting along the US against terrorism. We are in Afghanistan with troops, and we are in the Gulf patrolling. We (as in gov’t of Canada) allowed 100s of airplanes full of 9/11 passengers to land in our country after airspace was shut down, at considerable risk to ourselves. We (the Canadian people) took in thousands of people, into our communities, into our homes. Gander, Newfoundland and Labrador took in more passengers than there were RESIDENTS that lived there. So, to the US Gov’t (not the people). Fuck you. We don’t want a hero cookie for helping and supporting you. But fuck off with the threats when we won;t risk the lives of our citizens for an what we consider to be an illegal action that we do not support. Saddam must be stopped, but you are not going about it the right way. And as your friend, we are not standing with you. Take note. We ARE your friend. Maybe you need some objectivity here.
What short memories Americans have. Off topic, for those French bashers out there, talking about how you saved them in WW2, where where you in 1939 when the war started? 1941 was NOT the start of that war.
So George and company, instead of threatening Canada (hellthe world) with reprocussions for acting as Svoereign states, maybe you should see the reasons why some of your closest allies do not support you. That we are allies, and we disagree is not necessarily a negative thing. Just because you decide to jump off a bridge (bad metaphor, I know) does not mean that we should not try to warn you, nor does it mean that we should jump too.
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### Author:  [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/9 "2003-03-27T20:27:56Z")
Canada is not supporting us in the war, and the Canadian leadership seems to have started the mud-slinging here despite promises not to.
How exactly is Cellucci out of line with what he said?
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### Author:  [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/10 "2003-03-27T20:30:19Z")
Mudslinging that matters diplomatically as much as PAt Buchanan’s “Soviet Canuckistan” comments. Yet your President didn’t apologize…
Why are we always expected to?
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### Author:  [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/11 "2003-03-27T20:39:26Z")
The American administration is obviously not interested in a diplomatic relationship as it is understood between other pairs of countries. What it wants is quiet obedience. As this becomes more and more obvious, hopefully this or a future administration will take the initiative to diversify our diplomatic relations and continue to create an independent foreign policy worthy of a sovereign state.
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/12 "2003-03-27T22:02:33Z")
Here’s a better [link](http://newstribune.com/stories/032503/wor_0325030911.asp). Here’s the opening paragraphs:
> [@](#):
>
> TORONTO (AP) – Canada’s refusal to join the coalition fighting in Iraq has upset and disappointed the United States and caused a “bump in relations,” U.S. Ambassador Paul Cellucci said.
>
> In a speech to a business breakfast and later comments to journalists, Cellucci said the Canadian position showed that Prime Minister Jean Chretien’s government was less concerned about security threats than the United States.
>
> “They support the global war on terror, but they’re not supporting us fully,” Cellucci said.
>
> Raising his voice during his speech, he said the United States would respond immediately to any security threat in Canada.
>
> “There would be no debate. There would be no hesitation. We would be there for Canada,” Cellucci said. “That is why so many in the United States are disappointed and upset that Canada is not there for us now.”
As **InTheField** reminded us in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173010) on the same subject,
> [@](#):
>
> World War 1 did not start in 1917 Mr. Cellucci, but rather in 1914. You hesitated a couple of years there, eh? In addition, World War 2 did not start in 1941 Mr. Cellucci. Canadians had been fighting Hitler since 1939. Thanks OH SO MUCH for “coming to our aid without hesitation” then, you hypocritical scumbag. But then, of course, Hitler was just a misunderstood painter, eh? Plus, the majority of US citizens did not want to get involved in a European conflict. Mr. Cellucci, please pull your head out of George W’s colon for a moment and CONSULT A HISTORY BOOK.
He had a few other good things to add too. Check out his OP - it’s a fine and well-aimed rant.
The linked article went on to mention Canada’s 1000 troops in Afghanistan and its warships in the Persian Gulf. **InTheField** further mentioned the Canadians who had been killed in Afghanistan after 9/11. And here, **CuriousCanuck** has mentioned all that Canada did to help us out when we ordered our skies cleared of aircraft on the morning of 9/11.
I’ll go further back. Back in 1980, when the Khomeini regime in Iran was holding more than 50 Americans hostage, the Canadian Embassy there managed to smuggle a bunch of Americans out of Iran and to safety.
So, my points:
1. It sure does seem that the Administration treats Canada like a subordinate, rather than an equal in the community of nations. Take their help for granted when they’re there, and kick 'em when they don’t see things the way you do. That’s pretty objectionable.
2. Cellucci may be a puppet, but he’s got the right to not be one. If he thinks the messages he’s called on to deliver go too far, he can resign his ambassadorship. Resignation on principle used to be a time-honored tradition; it’s a pity the tradition’s dying out. This message was over the line. Cellucci could have, should have told the Bushies to find another lackey.
3. Canada and its citizens have just about _always_ been there for us Americans when we needed them. Thanks, guys. Despite all the jokes about y’all being our 51st state, I believe most Americans appreciate you guys. When we remember to think about you, that is, which isn’t often enough.
So remember, that crap that Cellucci threw at you doesn’t come from the U.S. as a whole. It just comes from that group of arrogant know-nothings who are now ensconced in the White House. Ignore 'em. I wish _we_ could. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/13 "2003-03-27T22:32:11Z")
I haven’t worked up as much outrage at Cellucci et. al. as many Canadians (it was on the front page of many newspapers here), but I’m not very happy about the comments, either. Luckily, my sons (who are also American citizens, btw) are only eight years old and too young to really be worried about such things, because I’d hate to to have to explain to them why the U.S. administration would make such outrageous comments about its closest ally.
Frankly, I see this more as a spoiled child lashing out at someone who wouldn’t play with them.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/14 "2003-03-27T23:23:45Z")
So I take it you’re all upset and disappointed by his remarks? 🙂 It makes sense the US is going to officially note its displeasure…this is an international coalition that Bush tried to put together, and when a close ally chooses not to participate, that’s a defeat for the diplomatic skills of administration.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/15 "2003-03-27T23:27:20Z")
That should be “the administration”.
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### Author:  [@zoony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoony)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/16 "2003-03-27T23:53:50Z")
As an appetizer, politicians are morons.
This whole dumbass thing is a result of 2 universal truths:
1. Politicians are powerless to think before they speak. The effects of this deficiency increase in geometric proportion to the number of microphones/reporters in the immediate area.
Have your opinions about other world leaders, but tell 'em to your spouse and your dog. Otherwise, do us all a favour and keep your fucking yaps shut.
1. The more power they get, the more politicians react to resistance like kids in a sandbox. Demands, followed by insults, followed by the threat of violence, culminating in violence itself.
Upset that Canadians don’t agree? Sorry, but that’s OK. We’re allowed to disagree. Those forbidden to disagree are already living in Iraq.
Upset that some people who knew better called you names? Sorry, but no one’ll remember in a month. Unless of course you bomb the bejezus outta their homes.
Sending your ambassador to Canada (that’s gotta be a prestige position for American politicos, wot?) to wag the government finger? Hey, ours is a free country too, even if most of us don’t have guns. Tell us how you feel. We’ll understand, and then go back to our regularly scheduled programming.
Threaten your largest trading partner and ally (yes, we still are, no matter what the analysts say) with ‘economic consequences’ because your pride’s been hurt? Please. Calm the fuck down.
Good Luck with your war. Call us when you’ve relaxed a little.
z
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### Author:  [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/to-mr-cellucci/164531/17 "2003-03-28T00:01:24Z")
Noting displeasure is fine. Making threats about trade measures, and implying that Canada doesn’t take real threats to American security seriously is _way_ fucking over the line, for reasons that have been quite adequately explained.